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TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

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Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#121

Post by libertyEQ »

rtkwe wrote: post #94
otakucode wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech is not there, actually. Facial recognition is absolute garbage. It borders on being completely useless even in ideal circumstances. Airports might have a slight advantage since they have a list of people they expect to be present (people with upcoming flights) and such, but in my experience systems like what the TSA uses are obstinantly terrible. They most likely have a commercial product purchased from some…

Making it slightly easier is that they have multiple points where a person is matched with a name during their time in the airport. With that and good enough coverage they could make the recognition better with continuous tracking. Even without an explicit name attached to a person just knowing all the places a person has gone could be useful for flagging 'weird' behavior.

It's almost as if some people are taking the poor state of the technology being proposed as some challenge, when most of us simply do not want to live in a police state.

Do. Not. Want.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#122

Post by eighthnate »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #63

I'm really sick of the TSA being used as the testing grounds for mass surviellance technologies and surveillance normalization. Why don't they just call it the Getting Americans Used to the Idea of Being Spied On Agency? Their current excuse is so thin it hurts.

> Their current excuse is so thin it hurts.

It's thin to the educated few. But for the uneducated masses, they think government is doing this to help them.

The easiest way for a government to get people to accept tyranny is to scare them with a threat ( external or internal ) and then claim the government is taking away rights in order to protect the public.

The power of fear and propaganda is central to government overreach and control. Whether it is nazi germany's fear mongering over the international jewry or the soviet fear mongering over capitalist west or the fear mongering of communist china, north korea, britain, saudi arabia, israel and of course the US, all governments follow the same script.

"If you want to control someone, all you have to do is to make them feel afraid." - coelho

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#123

Post by libertyEQ »

Tech-Noir wrote: post #95
tessierashpool wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. “The tech is there” is just the cowards’ excuse for not doing anything. The tech doesn’t make the difference. England had a police state when the only way to do that was to open paper mail with steam. This use of facial recognition is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment. The government is always trying to do shit like this, and it’s our job as citizens to stop them. The big takeaway should not be this patheti…

> Yup. “The tech is there” is just the cowards’ excuse for not doing anything. The tech doesn’t make the difference. I feel like you and the parent of your post are misinterpreting what sho said. I didn't read it as him trying to justify it, or even say "the tech is there (so let's just accept it) ", I read it as him pointing out that it's not just the TSA (or other US agencies) doing it. And how do you know that he'…

The appropriate spectral continuum to consider here is Authority vs Liberty.

Some things to specifically consider:

1) 240 years ago, the USA was the first country founded to prioritize liberty. 'Everyone' else had authoritarian monarchs at the time.

2) IMO, 'police' states are fine outside the USA if that is what those citizens want (e.g. Singapore, Australia, etc.).

3) U.K. has way too many public cameras (for me to feel comfortable).

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#124

Post by flamtap »

mbroncano wrote: post #110
sho wrote: post #4

> (Every government on earth) plans to use face recognition to track (everyone) through airports Fixed it for you. I know for a fact at least 2 asian countries which are either actively using or trialling this, and not just at airports. Both already have fairly comprehensive facial recognition DBs of their citizens (smile for your driver's license picture!) I've also heard anecdotal accounts of people who stay too lo…

Ok, so it's fine 'cause everybody else is doing so. A perfectly mature statement, furthermore supported by anecdotal evidence. Why on earth every single time the US government does something that is, err regretful, there's always a bunch of white nights ready to point out something of the sort 'but all the other kids do it'? Sounds like a recipe for societal disaster indeed. What we should we at the very least consid…

I didn't get the sense that they were implying that it was acceptable at all. My understanding of that comment was that they were pointing out that the problem is international, and doesn't only exist in America.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#125

Post by orbitur »

dogruck wrote: post #55
megaman22 wrote: post #7

Hey, if it means I can keep my shoes and my belt on going through security, I'm all for it. Anything that is going to actually be effective, and not merely massively inconvenient security theater.

You’ve fallen into the trap. Here’s what happened: 1. Add a bunch of ineffective, but annoying so-called security procedures. Truly annoy people. Take off your shoes and belt!! 2. Offer a way out of that nonsense, in exchange for trading away your privacy. 3. Win.

It's probably naive to even think that they'll pull back on the shoes/belt bullshit.

I fully expect to have to scan my face AND remove my shoes and belt. The TSA doesn't give a fuck, and no one holds them accountable for the delays they've added.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#126

Post by avs733 »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #105
dhimes wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't disagree, it's still hard to turn a blind eye to the Texas church shootings, or the Las Vegas shootings, or the NY park pickup truck slaughter. Any politician that just throws up his arms and says "it all just statistics" is likely out of a job. Privacy invasion has to be stopped by law. There is no way, currently, for a person who has public safety as a responsibility to say "no" to this kind of techno…

> Any politician that just throws up his arms and says "it all just statistics" is likely out of a job. They get away with that when it comes to gun control, why not with privacy too?

NRA yearly budget 220-250musd

EFF yearly budget 9musd...and they have a complicated history with active political engagement.

ACLU yearly budget 133musd

Both the EFF and ACLU do a lot more than just privacy. The NRA does one thing...and they are really good at it. They also have language in the constitution they can mis-interpret. For privacy we are left with the abstractness of unenumerated rights.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#127

Post by captaindiego »

otakucode wrote: post #89
sho wrote: post #4

> (Every government on earth) plans to use face recognition to track (everyone) through airports Fixed it for you. I know for a fact at least 2 asian countries which are either actively using or trialling this, and not just at airports. Both already have fairly comprehensive facial recognition DBs of their citizens (smile for your driver's license picture!) I've also heard anecdotal accounts of people who stay too lo…

The tech is not there, actually. Facial recognition is absolute garbage. It borders on being completely useless even in ideal circumstances. Airports might have a slight advantage since they have a list of people they expect to be present (people with upcoming flights) and such, but in my experience systems like what the TSA uses are obstinantly terrible. They most likely have a commercial product purchased from some…

Some lidar manufacturers are now working on trialing software (in airports and government building) which identifies people from pointclouds from many lidar units and tracks them. Fused with even poor facial recognition could make a quite powerful/scary tool.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#128

Post by dzhiurgis »

ionised wrote: post #38
dzhiurgis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue the spinner is a nice addition, explicitly reminding people are being filmed and to stop them from doing stupid shit while entering the country.

Stupid shit like what?

Like pranking your bro’s about bombs and drugs you are bringing because you’ve binge drunk for last 15 hours while locked up in ergonomically impossible position.

Honestly, the ‘forces you to look into camera with a straight face’ is awful idea. Many countries already have cams to scan you when talking with immigration officer.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#129

Post by sli »

mbroncano wrote: post #110
sho wrote: post #4

> (Every government on earth) plans to use face recognition to track (everyone) through airports Fixed it for you. I know for a fact at least 2 asian countries which are either actively using or trialling this, and not just at airports. Both already have fairly comprehensive facial recognition DBs of their citizens (smile for your driver's license picture!) I've also heard anecdotal accounts of people who stay too lo…

Ok, so it's fine 'cause everybody else is doing so. A perfectly mature statement, furthermore supported by anecdotal evidence. Why on earth every single time the US government does something that is, err regretful, there's always a bunch of white nights ready to point out something of the sort 'but all the other kids do it'? Sounds like a recipe for societal disaster indeed. What we should we at the very least consid…

This comment would be far more at home on reddit, where deliberately misreading what people say seems to be a pasttime. Or, would you mind quoting the part where OP said it's fine? I don't believe I see that anywhere, so some help would be nice.

Have some respect for the intelligence of your peers.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#130

Post by hammock »

AJRF wrote: post #69
zkms wrote: post #3

They already have this at Gatwick, there's security gates/turnstiles where the system doesn't let you pass until it's scanned your face and associated it with your boarding pass, and IIRC they scanned faces again right before boarding. There's also cameras scattered throughout the airport which have spinning/swirly LED rings around the lens (which look like this: https://www.hrsid.com/assets/images/art/proven-passeng…

Those immigration turnstiles at gatwick are terrifying. I went through it recently and the person beside me put their passport in the wrong way (they put the wrong page in) and an alarm blared out, everyones turnstile locked and armed guards came over to the person only to tell them to put the page in the right way.

Yes, they have these in Shanghai as well and I about shit my pants. When your face lines up correctly, even accidentally, it automatically takes the photo without warning with a loud noise and flashes a big smiley face. It struck me as having an extremely dystopian vibe.
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