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How Firefox Got Fast Again

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441–450 of 713 posts

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#441

> This is the opportunity that the Chrome engineers foresaw. We saw it too, but we had a bumpier path to get there. Since we had an existing code base we needed to plan for how to split up that code base to take advantage of multiple cores The "bumpier path" is that they removed XUL-based/legacy addons, only chrome-like addons (aka WebExtensions) are now supported on FF57. Personally i still have some extensions that…

They're talking about Electrolysis there, which happened several versions ago. XUL addons did indeed work with Electrolysis, but required some modifications to work well. Most unmodified addons continues to work through some magic cross-process API wrappers. They didn't implement everything, had some bugs, and were quite slow, but the fact that mozilla managed to keep most legacy addons functional through the biggest architectural shakeup in Firefox history shows their dedication and skill. It also illustrates how much engineering effort went into keeping XUL addons functional as firefox was re-architected, and thus why the decision was made to abandon them and move to webextensions.

What addons are you missing for webdev?

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#442
post #52

I switched back to Firefox 54 from Chrome when multiprocess browsing ("Electrolysis") came out of beta. It's been absolutely great. It's fast and I trust and like the nonprofit behind it. And all the extensions I care about are available. My main issue with Chrome was the endless nags to sign in to a Google account, and just generally wanting less dependence on Google. I also like that Firefox has a built in tracking…

"Becoming true "User Agents," in other words"

I remember the early browsers as smaller programs that were oriented around retrieving content for further viewing/interaction using other applications. As I understood it, this was one of the ways that MIME was useful.

The problems with "modern" web browsing that annoy users probably have less to do with what, back then, would have been separate programs. They have more to do with the retrieval step. User have little control over 1. the content the browser requests and retrieves and 2. whether and how that content is processed (i.e. the "default settings" of the browser decide and to my knowledge few users today manually adjust MIME settings or whatever today's equivalent is). Because users today expect the browser to do everything. It is more than a user agent i.e. http client, it is an "all-in-one" program that can seemingly do anything. No auxiliary programs are needed. This comes at a cost. I would argue that cost includes many hassles that users experience, including "speed".

The point is that this blog post is talking about #2, the processing of retrieved content. But is that really what causes most of the user annoyances? Is that what ultimately affects "speed"?

Or could it be, at least in part, that some web page is controlling the web browser to have it make dozens upon dozens of DNS and HTTP requests, not only for tracking, but in some cases for "content" the user does not want.

The first task of the user agent, #1, to retrieve content, is not nearly as complex as the second, #2. It probably has not changed much since the early days of the www. (I still use original netcat from 1996 as well as other 1990's tcp clients to great effect.) Retrieval of content can be user controlled. The complexity is manageable. The "user agent" can be small, open source and easily compiled by the user. And with todays memory and networking retrieval can be very fast.

When I think of a "user agent" I think of a tcp or http client, a small program that can make TCP connections and HTTP requests, not one that is also a graphics rendering engine, a video player, a programming language interpreter or a PDF viewer, etc.

It is the disappearance of the MIME idea in favor of a highly complex, all-in-one application called a "modern web browser" that is at the source of every known problem I can think of that is associated with "modern web browsers" today, whether it is browser "speed" or privacy or security or whatever. It is the price one must pay for not having separate programs with separate privileges to accomplish separate tasks.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#443

> This is the opportunity that the Chrome engineers foresaw. We saw it too, but we had a bumpier path to get there. Since we had an existing code base we needed to plan for how to split up that code base to take advantage of multiple cores The "bumpier path" is that they removed XUL-based/legacy addons, only chrome-like addons (aka WebExtensions) are now supported on FF57. Personally i still have some extensions that…

And before that, they added a ton of shims so that most old extensions still worked with the new multiprocess model. A huge amount of work.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#444
post #436

One thing I particularly like about the Mozilla Devtool is that when I highlight an element, I can see the horizontal and vertical lines that extend beyond the element box model which is great to see if other items are leveled with the one selected. Does anyone know if this is supported in Chrome or might there be an extension that can reproduce this functionality?

"Show Rulers" in the chrome dev console settings.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, so I guess you open links in a new tab and don't bother closing them?

I easily reach a hundred tabs with Tree Style Tabs when researching a topic. The tree structure makes it easy to understand how you've navigated the web and to traceback where you came from. When I found what I've what I was looking for I start closing tabs. The ones that remain is my catch and I save the URLs and/or contents.

Gotcha. Interesting. :-)

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#446
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW: if using Android, if FF is not for you, try Brave instead of Chrome. It feels exactly like Chrome (it's Chromium-based), but has a built-in adblocker, tracker blocking, HTTPS everywhere, no nagging to sign in, and does not throw "suggested news" (with no opt-out) upon you. Brave's founder is ex-Mozilla's CEO (Brendan Eich). However latest FF on Android is actually not bad, at least if you have a modern phone (th…

Use FF nightly on Android. It's got the quantum update and it's great. I haven't had it break on me yet, but I keep a working APK just in case.

Do you have to install the nightly build manually or can you opt-in via the default version?

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#447
post #368
post #52

I switched back to Firefox 54 from Chrome when multiprocess browsing ("Electrolysis") came out of beta. It's been absolutely great. It's fast and I trust and like the nonprofit behind it. And all the extensions I care about are available. My main issue with Chrome was the endless nags to sign in to a Google account, and just generally wanting less dependence on Google. I also like that Firefox has a built in tracking…

Thanks for the reminder. I just downloaded the latest FF beta and exiled Chrome to an "only when needed" role. All the back-and-forth about speed and features is understandable, but misses the point that Firefox needs our support if we are to have any real non-proprietary options for what is quickly becoming the base system abstraction layer for most computing.

Indeed this is the main point, and the reason I've stuck with Firefox ever since it launched, despite being rather slow a few years back. This is the only browser engine that is not shaped by major corporate interests. And frankly it has no major downsides as compared to Chrome. The latter only enjoys the market share it does (in my opinion) because of being aggressively pushed on Google.com and being bundled everywhere.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#448
post #421
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer FF over Chrome on mobile. FF mobile allows extensions such as uBlock Origin and Google Link Fixer which I find essential. FF supports sending tabs to other devices, if that's what you mean by Chrome tabs.

Firefox on Android has awful scrolling physics. I will never be able to use it while the scrolling is different to every other app on my phone.

Last I checked they were using the native Android scrolling physics. I could be mistaken though.

Re: How Firefox Got Fast Again

#450
post #434

I can still remember: * that moment I was overjoyed to use Lynx over dialup in South India back in the mid-90s allowing me to browse the World Wide Web! * ...And then that moment being surpassed when I wet myself running the Netscape "GUI browser" on Windows 95 using a brilliant hack by a pair of brothers I knew that wrote a winsock.dll shim on top of Lynx over dialup (called Blue Laser; those guys went on to become…

I still remember seeing Netscape for the first time. Seeing web pages was astonishing enough, then I suddenly realised you could browse the web in multiple windows, at the same time. Blew my mind.

Then subsequently lost my focus. And as they say, the rest is history.
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