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Brilliant Jerks in Engineering

brendangregg.com

11–20 of 243 posts

Re: Brilliant Jerks in Engineering

#11
This is a great article. It's a terrific opportunity for introspection.

I do however want to point out that some of these may be less about being an insufferably relentless jerk than other pieces.

> He is late to meetings, ... then looks at his phone or laptop while ignoring everyone around him

This is also a pretty common indicator for ADHD. Not to say that excuses being a "jerk", but there are people out there that have a fundamentally difficult time tracking and arriving at meetings properly, and it's not always easy to account for. It also goes hand in hand with a few other related issues here. It's also somewhat common in the world of software.

I have some semblance of issue arriving at meetings properly, and it takes sincere effort to correct for it. When I started my career (admittedly, not so long ago) I definitely displayed more pieces of what is described as brilliant jerk than I would like to have (though certainly nothing like gaslighting and exploitation of others around me - more those things in line with adhd).

On the other hand, I spent 3 years working especially hard on self improvement here, and I certainly appreciate the patience of those around me in helping me realize my failures. It took me a year of effort to really avoid interrupting others while talking - not as a matter of being a jerk, but simply because my mind gets lost in conversation and feels the need to begin talking with less cognizance than I wish I had that others were speaking. These days, I am quick to apologize upon realizing I've interrupted, and ask the speaker to continue. That's strictly worse than never interrupting, but it both publicly acknowledges that I know this is a problem for me in conversation, and helps move forward.

The best thing for some people who have some of these issues is to give them honest, direct, and proactive feedback regarding it. They may well have no idea the ways in which they're impacting those around them, and they may well be surprisingly proactive in self-improvement upon being spoken to.

It's non-proactivity in self-improvement that you should be far less accepting of, ADHD or not.

Re: Brilliant Jerks in Engineering

#12
post #3

I was so Alice for much of my career. I know this is going to sound totally cliche because this book get's recommended everywhere, but How to Win Friends and Influence People really did help me.

I'm still part Alice, I think. The Carnegie book really helped me, for sure. The difficulty though is that at some point if you believe something is important you may ultimately have to go through some kind of dialectic to make your case. How to Win Friends and Influence People says never have an argument. If you follow this advice you will reap the benefits of the book. However what you're building in your team will…

When you have multiple completely reasonable options picking either one is not a big deal. Sure, if A is vastly better than B, you can probably convince a team of that. However, when A and B are about as good then arguing about them is a waste of time.

Learning how to separate those situations is important, but not usually a major issue when approached in that context. If all else fails just have a coin flip and say winner takes all. If someone still can't let it go, they are toxic and it's time to remove them from the team.

PS: I call it the bike shedding rule. You need a system to pick a color for a bike shed with reasonable costs. The actual color is less important than the time wasted on the choice.

Re: Brilliant Jerks in Engineering

#14

I have no problem working with jerks, as long as they're brilliant. Culture fit also means not hiring people who are going to scream bloody murder at a disagreement, if your team is full of disagreeables.

I don't want to work with brilliant people. I want to work with productive people. I've worked with people who are great at solving hard problems that don't need to be solved (and I've been that person myself).

In my experience, people are productive when they're on a team that encourages everyone to be productive and keeps them all aligned in the right direction. That's hard to do with jerks on the team, brilliant or otherwise.

(To be clear, I think it's totally fine for different teams to have different priorities; I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all. I just have strong preferences for what teams I myself am on.)

Re: Brilliant Jerks in Engineering

#15
post #3

I was so Alice for much of my career. I know this is going to sound totally cliche because this book get's recommended everywhere, but How to Win Friends and Influence People really did help me.

I'm still part Alice, I think. The Carnegie book really helped me, for sure. The difficulty though is that at some point if you believe something is important you may ultimately have to go through some kind of dialectic to make your case. How to Win Friends and Influence People says never have an argument. If you follow this advice you will reap the benefits of the book. However what you're building in your team will…

I don't particularly like HTWFAIP so please don't take this is a canonical reply, but I never read it as an outright prohibition on debate. Rather, it seems to argue that you can disagree but that an effective leader should keep a disagreement from becoming an outright argument.

It sounds like a silly distinction, but what if you and I disagree about something. I have two choices. I could:

A.) Get incredibly defensive when you disagree, interrupt you constantly, lose my temper and flat out refuse to listen to your ideas.

B.) Thank you for disagreeing because we're all on the same team and want to avoid mistakes. Then I'd listen to everything you have to say and work hard to find areas where we agree. And, after I understand your argument, I point out all the areas where you are correct (and especially areas where I am wrong).

I'd argue that it's more about learning to disagree respectfully and tamper all the impulses to get defensive and turn it into a series of personal attacks.

Re: Brilliant Jerks in Engineering

#16
post #7

I've never actually come across an actually brilliant engineering person who was also a jerk. Maybe they sometimes superficially seemed like a jerk at first (particularly if you had a very thin skin), but not after you actually made an effort to get to know them. Most of the time though, the jerks just aren't even close to being brilliant. I feel this jerk attitude is quite often something that is used to mask inepti…

Same. Roughly the same XP and I have never seen these jerks everybody talks about. Similarly to the 10x engineer, or the awful engineer who could destroy your product if your interview doesn't weed them out, I haven't met the brilliant jerk so far.

Re: Brilliant Jerks in Engineering

#17
post #7

I've never actually come across an actually brilliant engineering person who was also a jerk. Maybe they sometimes superficially seemed like a jerk at first (particularly if you had a very thin skin), but not after you actually made an effort to get to know them. Most of the time though, the jerks just aren't even close to being brilliant. I feel this jerk attitude is quite often something that is used to mask inepti…

Same here, but I'm afraid that might just put me in to the jerk category myself.

Re: Brilliant Jerks in Engineering

#18
Americans somehow not only manage to conflate use of bad words with mission-hostile management, on top of that they don't even recognize mission-hostile management when it doesn't use bad words. That saga with Torvalds and USB-3 was quite something.

Re: Brilliant Jerks in Engineering

#20
I previously worked in a place with a Bob (who ticks 80% of the boxes there) and it really is super-toxic. He got plenty of "gaslight" because he had special treatment. He didn't need to follow the processes like everyone else. He got cool work. Hence my 'previously worked'.
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