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TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

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Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#81

Post by lumberjack »

zkms wrote: post #3

They already have this at Gatwick, there's security gates/turnstiles where the system doesn't let you pass until it's scanned your face and associated it with your boarding pass, and IIRC they scanned faces again right before boarding. There's also cameras scattered throughout the airport which have spinning/swirly LED rings around the lens (which look like this: https://www.hrsid.com/assets/images/art/proven-passeng…

The UK have gone bonkers with mass surveillance. Yesterday, I stumbled upon a TV series called "Motorway Cops". The whole point of the series was to showcase all the neat mass surveillance gadgets that even low level police officers have access too.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#82

Post by saas_co_de »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #73
saas_co_de wrote: post #2

While I think there are legitimate concerns about how this technology will be used I also think that there is a bit of FUD here: > losing your social security or credit card numbers to fraud is nothing compared to losing your biometrics. While you can change those numbers, you can’t easily change your face. What does this even mean? Last time I checked anyone can take my picture any time I am in public. Is their theo…

> Is their theory that someone is going to use a mission impossible face mask to impersonate me and then get me put on a terrorist watch list? Biometrics are basically useless, but they're useless in two separate contexts. Using them for access control is useless because of this: > Last time I checked anyone can take my picture any time I am in public. Lifting someone's fingerprints or face/iris scan is easy, and foo…

> That is definitively false. We're really, really good at it. machines [are] cheaper and scale better.

I am taking the "cheaper and scale better" part into account when I say that machines will be more accurate.

If you want to pick a face out of thousands in a crowd or match a single face to a list of thousands of targets facial recognition is going to outperform humans at the same cost.

> the false positive rate is a few percent

The false positive rate is whatever you configure it to be. The confidence level for flagging someone is a parameter and you can adjust it to whatever false positive rate is acceptable.

> the vast majority of people the machine flags will be innocent

Every single flag will be reviewed by a human who will decide whether or not to take action based on it. This is no different than a human looking at a list of suspects and then watching for matches, except that the computer can use a much larger suspect list, and give the human hints.

> Worse, the people the machine thinks look like someone on the bad list, it always thinks look like them

Every time a person is flagged that must be reviewed by a human. If the human marks the flag as a false positive then the algorithm learns from its mistake.

The idea that people will be repeatedly flagged is FUD unless they look a lot like the target, which is a problem with humans too: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-identic...

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#83

Post by mortenjorck »

AJRF wrote: post #69
zkms wrote: post #3

They already have this at Gatwick, there's security gates/turnstiles where the system doesn't let you pass until it's scanned your face and associated it with your boarding pass, and IIRC they scanned faces again right before boarding. There's also cameras scattered throughout the airport which have spinning/swirly LED rings around the lens (which look like this: https://www.hrsid.com/assets/images/art/proven-passeng…

Those immigration turnstiles at gatwick are terrifying. I went through it recently and the person beside me put their passport in the wrong way (they put the wrong page in) and an alarm blared out, everyones turnstile locked and armed guards came over to the person only to tell them to put the page in the right way.

Now that is dystopian.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#84

Post by logfromblammo »

sailfast wrote: post #66

Can we talk about how to hack this? Is there camera-defeating reflective make-up that I can apply before going through an airport? How does one defeat these technologies effectively so that they are no longer useful to governments?

CV Dazzle did a good job of making a face look like a not-face a few years ago, but I'm not sure how well it would work today.

I don't think there's any kind of make-up that would be visible to a camera, but not obvious to the naked eye, and still be able to defeat face recognition.

My plan would be to create a new religion in the United States that makes the wearing of face masks and veils in public an essential tenet. After the traditional new-religion battles over tax status and state recognition have been won in the US, shame the European countries into reforming their enabling laws using the mallet of religious liberty.

The downside is that you would likely have to actually believe--or at least convincingly fake--that showing your true face in public is taboo, and that being forcibly unmasked is a horrifying violation of your privacy and personal dignity.

I recall reading a short story that might be useful as basis, wherein everyone wore a mask at all times, and never spoke without providing musical accompaniment from one of a variety of instruments. The economy was based upon reputation and character rather than money, such that you could get most valuable things just by asking for them, but the shopkeepers had to decide that you were good enough to bear them first. The low-status masks were somewhat standardized and uniform, such that you could be "red goblin" for a day, and only play your pocket xylophone, and thus achieve a measure of public anonymity. Then, the next day, you could be "glorious fiery phoenix" and play your double-stringed lyre with brass resonators, and everyone would know you to be a really special and important person, because the craftspeople would never give away their best work to just anybody. Unfortunately, I have forgotten the title and the author, and web searching is turning up nothing.

And unfortunately, that is a very long-term strategy, which would take many years and a lot of cooperation to pull off. Right now, anything you are likely to do to defeat automated facial recognition is likely to get you additional attention from human cops. And depending on where you are, that "attention" may also include extrajudicial punishment for non-conformity.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#86

Post by tessierashpool »

mtgx wrote: post #40
sho wrote: post #4

> (Every government on earth) plans to use face recognition to track (everyone) through airports Fixed it for you. I know for a fact at least 2 asian countries which are either actively using or trialling this, and not just at airports. Both already have fairly comprehensive facial recognition DBs of their citizens (smile for your driver's license picture!) I've also heard anecdotal accounts of people who stay too lo…

> The tech is there. This is why comments such "but spy agencies have always been spying, it's their job" have always pissed me off. The spy agencies will continue to encroach on our rights the more "tech is here". We now have "smart" devices with mics and cameras in every room, so they're going to use that. If 30 years from now we'll use some kind of "bluetooth headset" that actually interacts directly with our thou…

Yup. “The tech is there” is just the cowards’ excuse for not doing anything. The tech doesn’t make the difference. England had a police state when the only way to do that was to open paper mail with steam.

This use of facial recognition is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment. The government is always trying to do shit like this, and it’s our job as citizens to stop them. The big takeaway should not be this pathetic, wimpy “they’re always going to try shit” as if trying were the same thing as succeeding. The big takeaway should be give your money to the ACLU and the EFF.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#87

Post by avs733 »

dhimes wrote: post #75
avs733 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this statement is predicated on the violation of our right to privacy having a significant and causal impact on our safety. I am something like 100x more likely to get struck by lightning _twice_ than I am to be killed by a terrorist

While I don't disagree, it's still hard to turn a blind eye to the Texas church shootings, or the Las Vegas shootings, or the NY park pickup truck slaughter. Any politician that just throws up his arms and says "it all just statistics" is likely out of a job. Privacy invasion has to be stopped by law. There is no way, currently, for a person who has public safety as a responsibility to say "no" to this kind of techno…

That is perfectly fair, but I think to a larger extent than they realize politicians drive public discourse and narrative. I'm not saying do nothing, i'm simply saying that more often than not the TSA and their methods have been shown to be utterly inept. Just because it is logistically simpler for me I bring 'contraband' on every flight I take...hundreds of flights, never even been noticed. (Most/Many) of us live in a state that declared war on a plant and is losing and the majority of people accept it for no other reason than its the narrative presented to them.

I'm not against doing something, I'm against counting doing anything as equivalent to doing something productive.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#88

Post by frostwhale »

zkms wrote: post #80
frostwhale wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree in general, airports are a bit different. Reading the title of this article I thought, "Good". It's their job to surveil and monitor the airport to the best of technology and law. It is our job to regulate what big brother can and can't do. While security is ridiculously dystopian and over the top, the climate of our world has forced this in airports, so of course they're going to be using all the tech…

> It's their job to surveil and monitor the airport to the best of technology and law. It is our job to regulate what big brother can and can't do. While security is ridiculously dystopian and over the top, the climate of our world has forced this in airports, so of course they're going to be using all the tech possible. I strongly concur that civil aviation needs to be protected from malfeasance. However, all this f…

That's a fair counter. I am assuming the technology already exists in fully functional and efficient form, and that the TSA is just applying it to the airport.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#89

Post by otakucode »

sho wrote: post #4

> (Every government on earth) plans to use face recognition to track (everyone) through airports Fixed it for you. I know for a fact at least 2 asian countries which are either actively using or trialling this, and not just at airports. Both already have fairly comprehensive facial recognition DBs of their citizens (smile for your driver's license picture!) I've also heard anecdotal accounts of people who stay too lo…

The tech is not there, actually. Facial recognition is absolute garbage. It borders on being completely useless even in ideal circumstances. Airports might have a slight advantage since they have a list of people they expect to be present (people with upcoming flights) and such, but in my experience systems like what the TSA uses are obstinantly terrible. They most likely have a commercial product purchased from some vendor deployed in ways it was never meant to function with management types forcing everyone to ignore the utter uselessness of the solution. They're going to make their career on deploying the system regardless of whether it works or not.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#90

Post by otakucode »

lumberjack wrote: post #81
zkms wrote: post #3

They already have this at Gatwick, there's security gates/turnstiles where the system doesn't let you pass until it's scanned your face and associated it with your boarding pass, and IIRC they scanned faces again right before boarding. There's also cameras scattered throughout the airport which have spinning/swirly LED rings around the lens (which look like this: https://www.hrsid.com/assets/images/art/proven-passeng…

The UK have gone bonkers with mass surveillance. Yesterday, I stumbled upon a TV series called "Motorway Cops". The whole point of the series was to showcase all the neat mass surveillance gadgets that even low level police officers have access too.

And they will continue to be baffled as to why violent crime continues to rise in incidence and severity. The fact there has never been a peaceful, stable, happy police state in history doesn't seem to be a hint to frightfully many people.
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