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How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

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Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#31
post #28

I've seen plenty of visual programming tools and lots of other things to help "non programmers." I've even helped build one. The fact is that if you can think and communicate precisely enough to describe your ideas then you can enter them into a computer fairly easily in a language like python or basic. If you can't then no matter how fancy your tools are you still need something intelligent (currently a human progra…

I agree. Typing is not the hard part of programming.

Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#32
post #28

I've seen plenty of visual programming tools and lots of other things to help "non programmers." I've even helped build one. The fact is that if you can think and communicate precisely enough to describe your ideas then you can enter them into a computer fairly easily in a language like python or basic. If you can't then no matter how fancy your tools are you still need something intelligent (currently a human progra…

I can think of field where these kind of tools flourish: music and art. I'm thinking of this specific counter-example:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/synt...

There may be other specific problem domains where subject matter experts may be able to be productive, if given relatively basic programming tools along with specific, modular, abstractions useful to their problem domain.

I could see drone programming becoming something like this - a farmer may need to update his drone behaviour every day, but he may not be excited about learning to 'program' it.

Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. But while not "F U money" $100k p/m is enough to say: Well someone must be using it then. Perhaps, in the Hooked sense, the somewhat diffcult learning curve helps to increase long term retention?

How do you know it’s not FU money?

On annualized turnover you need at least one or two more zeros to reach F U status :)

Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#34
post #5

I watched the demo video. It looks like what the Visual Basic form builder was for Windows programming in the 90s. However it will be difficult for non programmers. The very first dialog about Google Maps has menus "API provider" and "Query". I wonder how many non programmers know what they are. They can take a guess and learn but maybe this is still too low level. The second example is about building a login form by…

> However it will be difficult for non programmers.

I work with non-programmers every day who know what APIs and queries are.

There are millions of people who are technical enough to manipulate Excel sheets, talk intelligently about API integrations, and tweak SQL queries but are not programmers themselves. Non-programmer does not automatically mean non-technical.

Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#35
post #28

I've seen plenty of visual programming tools and lots of other things to help "non programmers." I've even helped build one. The fact is that if you can think and communicate precisely enough to describe your ideas then you can enter them into a computer fairly easily in a language like python or basic. If you can't then no matter how fancy your tools are you still need something intelligent (currently a human progra…

I think the problem is once you get into coding it yourself, docs/tutorials/stackoverflow make you aware of all sorts of things like dev tools (IDEs, editors, package managers, VCS, VMs, containers, the list is goes on...) or security concepts (csrf tokens, ssl, secrets management, again the list goes on...) and as a non-tehnical person you start to get really uncomfortable and overwhelmed because you don't know what all this stuff is and you don't know which things are necessary to learn and which are "nice to haves" to build something simple. So you either give up or you try to learn as much as you can about these things. But learning about these things is a slippery slope because before you know it months (or even years) have gone by and you're no closer to shipping that simple idea you had. Sure, you've learned a ton! You may have even learned enough to get a junior dev role somewhere which is great! But you never finished that original thing you were working on which IMO we need more of. We need less people getting burnt out in dev roles after 5 years because that's not really where their heart lied in the first place and we need more people finishing the projects that got them into coding. Not saying Bubble or any of the other visual programming tools are perfect but I think saying people should just learn Python and Django and code it themselves ignores how complicated that path actually is and how few people actually go down that path and get their ideas out into the world. Anvil.works was on here recently and I think that strikes a nice balance. It's not perfect either but I guess I'm just saying I think it's great people are working on stuff like this. And, as mentioned in another comment, this thing has a $1.2M run rate. Clearly it's useful to someone.

Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#36

What I'd really like is a smarter compiler. My normal dev process is 1. Write code 2. Run code 3. See error 4. Google error 5. Write code to fix error 6. Repeat I'd like a compiler that helps speed up steps 3-5. I know IDEs do some of this, but I'd like a compiler that automatically fixes errors instead of just telling me what went wrong. One that fixes parentheses that I left off or automatically fixes typos in vari…

You can use Javascript, the main engines will do that kind of magical "fixing" like adding missing semicolons and hoist variable definitions upwards in functions. It's even transparent. It's an hot mess.

What you request in the last paragraph is a Junior Developer to do the grunt work of implementing a spec.

Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#37
post #28

I've seen plenty of visual programming tools and lots of other things to help "non programmers." I've even helped build one. The fact is that if you can think and communicate precisely enough to describe your ideas then you can enter them into a computer fairly easily in a language like python or basic. If you can't then no matter how fancy your tools are you still need something intelligent (currently a human progra…

Came here to say this. But then realised my wife.

She did a year of com sci. She learned SQL at work. She can Excel with the best at her bank, with some VBA here and there. Still I had to coax her into learning Python for some bigger-than-Excel datasets. She wanted to for ages but just couldn't make the leap to "real" programming (her thinking, obviously not true).

Even when she tried we had issues installing things. She made good progress and almost got it. I sat an evening with her and we solved the issue. She had a lot of support to get over the various hurdles, support many don't have.

Obviously it's one data point but it highlights the issue. I think we've forgotten how hard it can be. Anything that helps should get a shot.

Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#38

As a marketer, I've found Bubble to be really useful for building out small micro-apps for data-capture for clients who for whatever reason weren't ready to move to a solution like HubSpot. I'm not sure how I'd feel about using it for anything larger than that, though I've seen some worked examples of Twitter clones etc. There's probably slightly too much Bubble-specific terminology and concepts to make it worth lear…

It sounds like the "remedy" for app dev.

Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#39
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment sounds like something straight out of a Show HN, not a thread about a 5 year old service with 100,000 users and $100k in monthly revenues. There's obviously a big demand for this so either you're wrong or people using it are actually programmers.

I just took a quick look at it and GP has a simple misunderstanding here. When they say you don't have to be a coder that doesn't mean the target market is my girlfriend who has no interest in this whatsoever(she's a doctor). The target market is those people that sit in places like the AWS loft or places like that, listen to tech talks and wish they had a coder to build their ideas for free. Most of them already kno…

From the people I've met in start ups so far, the most likely to use it would be Designers and Product people. The Product manager I work with knows what an API is, and could probably hack out a solution to something, but really prefers not to.

Re: How Bubble bootstrapped a visual programming tool for non-coders to $100k/mo

#40

Has anyone had experience transitioning a Bubble app into an actual coded app/DB outside of Bubble? I could see it as an interesting solution for rapid prototyping of ideas, but I'd be concerned about lock-in and extra expense later when migrating to something more robust.

^ This. I'm writing Bubble off as another hype-ster toy until proven wrong.
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