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Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

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Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

#1

Post by throwaway1 »

I'm thinking of undertaking a phD in an area that interests me - part-time, whilst I continue to work.

Apart from the questions I have around time commitment, etc, I would like to know if a phD is a good way to focus and motivate me to complete an original piece of work?

I spend a lot of time starting numerous projects but never getting them to where I want to take them. I think this is mainly down to it being very difficult to motivate myself when I'm 'tinkering'.

In a dream scenario, completion of the research would lead to something, that could be end user ready/commercialised/exploited through some more work.

Any war stories, anyone here taken that approach? Is it flawed? Anything I should watch out for?

Re: Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

#2

Post by Aaronontheweb »

Although I'm not pursuing a PhD nor do I ever plan on pursuing one, my father has one in Theoretical Chemistry from UCLA. He tried to raise venture / angel funding for a desktop computing startup in the early 1980s a few years after he graduated and got his green card, and one of the things that really got in his way was, in fact, his PhD.

The reason is that his potential investors and perhaps investors in general hold an innate bias against those of the academic system, namely that they're impractical eggheads who couldn't possibly know how to run a business.

He removed all refernces to his graduate education from his applications for funding and that actually helped him get more meetings - he eventually got funding from an angel who actually valued my father's PhD but it took a long time to find somebody who didn't dismiss him because of it.

That was 25 years ago - things might be different now that PhDs are more common, but I figured I'd share his experience with you.

Re: Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

#3

Post by mattmight »

I supervise a couple Ph.D. students working full-time jobs.

It's definitely a challenge for them, and it requires immense self-discipline.

Coincidentally, I just posted this morning about the three qualities of successful Ph.D. students--perseverance, tenacity and cogency:

http://matt.might.net/articles/successful-phd-students/

The middle part of grad school is generally depressing: you're failing constantly, your work is getting rejected everywhere, and you get consumed with self-doubt.

It's tough to get a Ph.D. part-time because to do it right, it must consume you. Exceptions are rare.

Also, if you're hoping that what you have at the end of a Ph.D. will be ready for end users, you might want to consider that the benchmark for software in academia is "proof of concept." Most academic code is a disaster in terms of usability and maintainability.

The code is so awful that I even drafted a special open source license to encourage academics to release it--the CRAPL:

http://matt.might.net/articles/crapl/

Re: Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

#4

Post by apu »

I think you might have it a little bit backwards. You need a fair amount of focus and self-motivation to complete a PhD. If you already are having issues with this, starting a PhD would be like giving a crack addict access to a large, cheap supply of crack.

A lot of it will also depend on your advisor. A more hands-off advisor will certainly mean trouble for you, as the required pressure to keep you focused will not be there. Finally, conference deadlines are the other big motivator for PhD students. If you don't think that would help focus you, then you'll be setting yourself up for failure (and possibly depression).

Also, I'm not sure how feasible it is to do a "part-time" PhD. That might work with a master's where it's almost exactly like bachelor's part 2, but a PhD is more of an all-or-nothing endeavor. The one exception I know of is for people starting/spinning-off companies based on their research. Even there, it's a lot of work, and I personally find it very hard to maintain good forward progress in both at the same time.

Re: Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

#5

Post by throwaway1 »

mattmight wrote: post #3

I supervise a couple Ph.D. students working full-time jobs. It's definitely a challenge for them, and it requires immense self-discipline. Coincidentally, I just posted this morning about the three qualities of successful Ph.D. students--perseverance, tenacity and cogency: http://matt.might.net/articles/successful-phd-students/ The middle part of grad school is generally depressing: you're failing constantly, your wo…

Thanks for the link looks useful.

"Also, if you're hoping that what you have at the end of a Ph.D. will be ready for end users..."

I have been writing production code for a living for the last 6 years so that doesn't bother me. If other contribute then yes it's likely it wouldn't be production ready. To be honest I don't expect anything that comes out of a phD to be ready for end users without considerable work with a different focus. I think to even get that far will be a great achievement for me.

The commitment on top of a full time job is my biggest concern. I think I would be taking quite a lot of leave to concentrate on research full time.

Re: Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

#7

Post by tomstuart »

You absolutely must choose the right supervisor, at the right university, to match your attitude and lifestyle.

I just can't emphasise this enough. If you're naturally scatty and unfocused, you need a supervisor who can rein you in and give you some direction; if you tend towards hyperfocusing, you need a supervisor who can broaden your interests and allow you to make connections you would have missed.

Re: Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

#8

Post by throwaway1 »

apu wrote: post #4

I think you might have it a little bit backwards. You need a fair amount of focus and self-motivation to complete a PhD. If you already are having issues with this, starting a PhD would be like giving a crack addict access to a large, cheap supply of crack. A lot of it will also depend on your advisor. A more hands-off advisor will certainly mean trouble for you, as the required pressure to keep you focused will not…

My focus and motivation is something that I think about a lot. At work I am very focused and motivated. My work is project based and deadline oriented, and so I have no trouble focusing in that environment. My colleagues, and the fact that I work on "real" problems motivates me. I just can't transfer that easily to when I code in my spare time - crucially - on something that I see through to completion.

for example one of my side projects is a webapp I have been building since september 2009, at which time I worked on it very intensely. Then I left it for a good few months, to only pick it up again when I was reminded that the problem it would solve was still a very real one - this spurred me on to work on it for another three months or so. I haven't picked it up again in the last two months.

I think I need real people around me to make the problem appear much more real, and keep me motivated. I think that is my rationale for this approach.

Re: Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

#9

Post by throwaway1 »

tomstuart wrote: post #7

You absolutely must choose the right supervisor, at the right university, to match your attitude and lifestyle. I just can't emphasise this enough. If you're naturally scatty and unfocused, you need a supervisor who can rein you in and give you some direction; if you tend towards hyperfocusing, you need a supervisor who can broaden your interests and allow you to make connections you would have missed.

Maybe I haven't expressed my self properly - I apologise, I wouldn't by any stretch of the imagination describe myself as scatty or unfocused. The question for me is, will I be focused enough, bearing in mind how big an undertaking this is.

I am hearing from a lot of people (not just on here), that having the right supervisor is essential. I will make sure to ask him just as many questions as he will me when I see him tomorrow. Thanks Tom.

Re: Ask HN: Is a phD a good way to focus & motivate you?

#10

Post by ajj »

If your objective is only to get focused and motivated, and not necessarily do research, a PhD might be too much of a time sink (I am a PhD student in CS). More so if you are thinking of taking it up part time, since most of your free time will be spent on it. Further, expect that the first couple years will not give you many positive returns to motivate you to go on: those are mainly spent building the foundation.

Having said that, if you truly enjoy the process of research, that might be just the thing to get you more focused and motivated. I definitely enjoy it at the moment.

In summary, don't go for it only to get motivated - if it doesn't interest you, it might end up taking too much energy for nothing.

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