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H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

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Re: H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

#11

Post by wheelerwj »

caseysoftware wrote: post #5

Isn't the H1-B program ripe with abuse? I've read dozens if not hundreds of comments here and reports from all over where teams were laid off in favor of H1-B counterparts. If that's really the case, challenging the applications is the first deterrent to this sort of behavior. I doubt anything will eliminate 100% of the abuse but if we can cut it significantly, I'd call that a win.

ive heard of this rumor but ive never actually seen it in action. having hired h1bs before, i’m skeptical that anyone but a massive corporation could do something like this.

the expenses, rules, process would prohibit most teams from accomplishing and maintaining this. and a corporation large enough to pull it off likely wouldn’t derive enough benefit to actually make it worth it given the risk of exposure from either internal or external whistle blowers.

i have no doubt there’s fraud in the immigration system, (america is pretty cool after all), i feel like the fraud problem takes shape in different forms than, “mass layoffs in favor of h1b labor.” honestly, i’m more worried about he use of

Re: H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

#12

Post by sidlls »

revelation wrote: post #8
sidlls wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think a computer run system won't be subject to biases (in particular of the implementors)?

Bureaucracy isn't the promise of a system free of biases. The promise is that of a pure function: \forall a,b: a = b -> f(a) = f(b) What's the point? The point is that there is a clear, rational audit trail for "why was this decision taken" with a computer system. You can challenge that. You can't challenge an overpaid gov admin whose primary motivating factor in making decisions is pleasing his superiors, no matter…

There isn't any meaningful difference between the kinds of challenges you present. It's given a facade of mathematical rigor, but it's still a facade.

Re: H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

#13

Post by brianjoseff »

revelation wrote: post #8
sidlls wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think a computer run system won't be subject to biases (in particular of the implementors)?

Bureaucracy isn't the promise of a system free of biases. The promise is that of a pure function: \forall a,b: a = b -> f(a) = f(b) What's the point? The point is that there is a clear, rational audit trail for "why was this decision taken" with a computer system. You can challenge that. You can't challenge an overpaid gov admin whose primary motivating factor in making decisions is pleasing his superiors, no matter…

Highly recommend you check out the book "Weapons of Math Destruction" by Cathy O'Neil

Very accessible set of case studies where algorithmic management of traditionally human-run bureaucratic processes is biased and destructive.

Re: H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

#15

Post by 2_listerine_pls »

caseysoftware wrote: post #5

Isn't the H1-B program ripe with abuse? I've read dozens if not hundreds of comments here and reports from all over where teams were laid off in favor of H1-B counterparts. If that's really the case, challenging the applications is the first deterrent to this sort of behavior. I doubt anything will eliminate 100% of the abuse but if we can cut it significantly, I'd call that a win.

Companies should hire whomever they want.

Re: H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

#16

Post by chrisbennet »

wheelerwj wrote: post #11
caseysoftware wrote: post #5

Isn't the H1-B program ripe with abuse? I've read dozens if not hundreds of comments here and reports from all over where teams were laid off in favor of H1-B counterparts. If that's really the case, challenging the applications is the first deterrent to this sort of behavior. I doubt anything will eliminate 100% of the abuse but if we can cut it significantly, I'd call that a win.

ive heard of this rumor but ive never actually seen it in action. having hired h1bs before, i’m skeptical that anyone but a massive corporation could do something like this. the expenses, rules, process would prohibit most teams from accomplishing and maintaining this. and a corporation large enough to pull it off likely wouldn’t derive enough benefit to actually make it worth it given the risk of exposure from eithe…

It’s not a “rumor”. Disney layed off over 100 IT staff and had them train their Indian replacements [1]. Southern California Edison layed off 400 and had them train their Indian replacements. [2]

[1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/2915904/it-outsourcing...

[2] https://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/it-outsourcing...

Re: H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

#17

Post by Techonomicon »

2_listerine_pls wrote: post #15
caseysoftware wrote: post #5

Isn't the H1-B program ripe with abuse? I've read dozens if not hundreds of comments here and reports from all over where teams were laid off in favor of H1-B counterparts. If that's really the case, challenging the applications is the first deterrent to this sort of behavior. I doubt anything will eliminate 100% of the abuse but if we can cut it significantly, I'd call that a win.

Companies should hire whomever they want.

there's a difference between hiring a team offshore, that stays offshore, and hiring h1b developers to move here. The first is global economy, the second can be detrimental to keeping jobs within america, especially when we actually do have many perfectly fine and able engineers losing their jobs simply because others are willing to work for half of their pay.

The H1-B abuse the OP is talking about has nothing to do with hiring better people from other countries, I don't think many people argue that - the problem is just trying to replace perfectly fine engineering teams which live here with cheaper engineering teams. And we're not talking the difference between $150k developer who is from the US and a $130k one that is brought in from elsewhere, we're talking about being able to pay WAY under market, perhaps even half market rates - that's the issue.

Re: H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

#18

Post by tyingq »

wheelerwj wrote: post #11
caseysoftware wrote: post #5

Isn't the H1-B program ripe with abuse? I've read dozens if not hundreds of comments here and reports from all over where teams were laid off in favor of H1-B counterparts. If that's really the case, challenging the applications is the first deterrent to this sort of behavior. I doubt anything will eliminate 100% of the abuse but if we can cut it significantly, I'd call that a win.

ive heard of this rumor but ive never actually seen it in action. having hired h1bs before, i’m skeptical that anyone but a massive corporation could do something like this. the expenses, rules, process would prohibit most teams from accomplishing and maintaining this. and a corporation large enough to pull it off likely wouldn’t derive enough benefit to actually make it worth it given the risk of exposure from eithe…

You could reasonably classify the H1Bs issued by companies like Tata, Infosys, and Wipro as abuse.

They are quite often used to displace existing workers. That's not the purpose of the H1B program. They are, of course, clever about how they structure these deals, but do get exposed often enough.

http://www.epi.org/blog/new-data-infosys-tata-abuse-h-1b-pro...

Re: H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

#19

Post by nameisu »

they don't need to do any of this bullshit. if you let the people complain easily without fear of losing visa status then all the fraud will be wiped out automatically. I know very well how companies(including places i have worked for before) and lawyers combine together and circumvent the rules often times illegal if caught. government should learn from canada and implement a merit based system . Presidential Executive Order on Buy American and Hire American said something about implementing a merit based system but nothing has been done so far.

Re: H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications

#20

Post by makmanalp »

tyingq wrote: post #18
wheelerwj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ive heard of this rumor but ive never actually seen it in action. having hired h1bs before, i’m skeptical that anyone but a massive corporation could do something like this. the expenses, rules, process would prohibit most teams from accomplishing and maintaining this. and a corporation large enough to pull it off likely wouldn’t derive enough benefit to actually make it worth it given the risk of exposure from eithe…

You could reasonably classify the H1Bs issued by companies like Tata, Infosys, and Wipro as abuse. They are quite often used to displace existing workers. That's not the purpose of the H1B program. They are, of course, clever about how they structure these deals, but do get exposed often enough. http://www.epi.org/blog/new-data-infosys-tata-abuse-h-1b-pro...

The question is whether those being rejected are these ones or not, which I don't know if we have enough information to tell.
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