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How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

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Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#161

Post by sametmax »

nightski wrote: post #151
sametmax wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vue dlc is better. Vue doesn't require webpack. All vue tutorials agree on how to so things and they work the first time you try them. You son't have to learn a new way to do templates or pass data. You can start withou components. You can even start without npm. In summary, vue offers a simpler hands on experience while allowing smooth learning curve to more complicated setup matching react's. React just throws you…

Vue requires webpack when going for anything beyond a simple hello world experience. At some point beginners are going to have to enter the real world. BTW - You don't need webpack for React either. It is entirely possible to write React without it.

> Vue requires webpack when going for anything beyond a simple hello world experience

Not at all. That's the beauty of it. A lot of projects just drop Vue in a script tag and use no components. There are 1000's of projects out there with such a scale that anything else would be overdoing it.

> BTW - You don't need webpack for React either. It is entirely possible to write React without it.

Technically yes. But realistically no. First, you will find almost zero doc/tutorials on how to do so. All the ecosystem and community assumes webpack, and a top-down component architecture. If you ask on a forum how to do x, people will promptly tell you to use Redux. And the React API is clearly not comfortable anyway without tooling.

It's a bit like saying "well you could perfectly code a Java project without an IDE". Yes you can. But who would do it ?

Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#162

Post by conradfr »

ng12 wrote: post #87
conradfr wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vuex is simpler than Redux. First you don't have to grasp the Container/Component pattern. Second you have less middleware ("what, you don't use redux-saga and redux-think?"). Vue and Vuex seem less clever JS (shiny es6 features), less clever programming (mutability etc) which I feel may be a detriment for complex apps in the long term but it is simpler. (I may be biased because before Vue and React/Redux I did Angul…

> Container/Component That's not part of Redux, it's a separate design pattern you can use with any Flux architecture. React-Redux doesn't even require you to do it that way, and for good reason: you might not need it. There's nothing wrong with just importing a store reference wherever you want it. That's a totally reasonable pattern for some applications. This illustrates my point I guess. There's so many people th…

That's not part of Redux, maybe, but it's very prominent in the official tutorial in the basic section : https://redux.js.org/docs/basics/UsageWithReact.html

Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#163

Post by GFischer »

ng12 wrote: post #8
a13n wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did new react developers start learning redux? From my experience that just isn't true.

The majority of complaints I hear (either at work or online) about React are actually about the React ecosystem -- they have trouble with Webpack or Redux and throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think very few people learn React by writing a pure app (e.g. hand-compiled, no state library). React itself is an incredibly simple library: you can explain the entire thing in a few sentences. In my experience it has a…

The thing is, even if you want to hold yourself to a simple React-only app, the moment you want to leverage someone else's work, you are thrown into the shark-infested waters of the React ecosystem.

I think React is very cool, and I haven't tried Vue, but everything on this thread points to it being a much better learning experience, and might be better for small or middle-sized projects.

Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#164

Post by ZenoArrow »

allover wrote: post #92
sametmax wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Hence "that and".

I don't mean to be an arse, but if you agree with my point, then maybe you can see why I disagree that your "that and" is a valid strike against React/in favour of Vue.

Simplicity makes picking up the unfamiliar easier. You can't accurately deduce from time alone that the time to pick up Vue was based on familiarity with similar libraries.

Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#165

Post by dmitriid »

sametmax wrote: post #161
nightski wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vue requires webpack when going for anything beyond a simple hello world experience. At some point beginners are going to have to enter the real world. BTW - You don't need webpack for React either. It is entirely possible to write React without it.

> Vue requires webpack when going for anything beyond a simple hello world experience Not at all. That's the beauty of it. A lot of projects just drop Vue in a script tag and use no components. There are 1000's of projects out there with such a scale that anything else would be overdoing it. > BTW - You don't need webpack for React either. It is entirely possible to write React without it. Technically yes. But realis…

Why do Vue docs tell you to use webpack for “large, serious projects”? https://vuejs-templates.github.io/webpack

Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#166

Post by ZenoArrow »

I hope one day more web developers will realise all the major JS frameworks are just a band aid to plug the gaps in vanilla JS. It should be easy to build web apps using vanilla JS. No frameworks pushing a certain way of working, just a reliable batteries-included language that you're free to extend with your own application-specific extensions and mix-and-match external libraries, just like desktop app developers have taken for granted for over a decade.

Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#167

Post by sametmax »

nightski wrote: post #149
sametmax wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually beginers in view won't use a component at all. They will use it angulajs 1 style

That's my point. You don't have to in react either.

You don't have to, but nobody would. It's not practical. While it's very practical to do so in Vue.

Like you can write Java without IDE. Nobody would. But plenty do with Python.

Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#168

Post by sametmax »

nightski wrote: post #150
Rusky wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how jQuery could have been anywhere near as ubiquitous if it had required a build step. It makes experimenting easier for beginners, for people considering switching to it, for people who are already using it and want to try something outside the context of their existing codebase, for people writing tutorials and demos, etc. The less bullshit to wade through when using a tool, the more situations it will…

That's just it though, Vue & React aren't for most web sites. There is no point in pulling either in unless you are building something much more complex than where jQuery would suffice. There is no need for a technology to be "ubiquitous", just that it is going to meet the demands your application has for it.

Actually vue is so small and simple you can just drop it anywhere. Even on non JS heavy website. It's a bit like redis. Low price. Always nice to have. Very reliable.

Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#169

Post by sametmax »

dmitriid wrote: post #165
sametmax wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vue requires webpack when going for anything beyond a simple hello world experience Not at all. That's the beauty of it. A lot of projects just drop Vue in a script tag and use no components. There are 1000's of projects out there with such a scale that anything else would be overdoing it. > BTW - You don't need webpack for React either. It is entirely possible to write React without it. Technically yes. But realis…

Why do Vue docs tell you to use webpack for “large, serious projects”? https://vuejs-templates.github.io/webpack

It seems you have weird idea of what is the average size of a web project. "Large" is not common. It's the exception.

And the reason is: projects starts small, and grow. But not all grow to become large.

The wonderful thing with vue: you start small, and IF you reach the stage you need more, you can do so easily.

Re: How we do Vue at GitLab: one year later

#170

Post by neals »

I wanted to build something in Vue a few months ago. I really like the single-file-component thing. I also like the code to update automatically and my browser to refresh.

I decided on Webpack. First time using it and no idea where to get started. I ended up downloading some boilerplate webpack / vue / vueX that now does everything for me, but I have no idea what webpack is actually doing or how it is doing that. I'm not even sure how big this stack is... how big is my chain of dependencies here?

Am I going to be in trouble at some point? It feels like I'm on borrowed time here and my little house of cards will come tumbling down soon.

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