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“We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

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Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#351

Post by d0mine »

Anderkent wrote: post #340
d0mine wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"opaque, obtuse, and obscure" is a red herring. Imagine, Intel were a Russian company. Tomorrow, there would be a simple and clear [screaming] headline similar to "Russians hacked the election" (general public doesn't need to know or understand how the network, computers or elections actually work). The day after tomorrow it would be illegal to buy anything Intel.

Elections have almost certainly been hacked - the security on electronic voting machines is abysmal - and no one seems to care, so I think your 'Russians hacked the elections' example doesn't say what you meant.

There are economic sanctions against Russia. There are no sanctions against Intel. I meant what I said.

Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#352

Post by mrschwabe »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #229
mrschwabe wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kudos for speaking up about it, understandably with a throwaway account - which unfortunately doesn't help prove what you say is in any way truthful. But you probably still work for them and enjoy a nice salary. So can't blame you at all there. But I do just wish more people would be willing to put their careers on the line to say the right thing. This is one of the underlying problems: when smart people go along wit…

> But you probably still work for them and enjoy a nice salary. So can't blame you at all there. Why not? Is a salary a good ethical justification for mistreating other people?

Well, you're right salary is not justification for mistreating other people but I can at least sympathize with OP who has maybe rationalized going along with something shady because he himself was mistreated/deceived and perhaps wants to believe ME is not a tool for exploitation; for many 'ignorance is bliss' is a way of life that works for them so it is what it is.

Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#353

Post by ZenoArrow »

fragmede wrote: post #86
WhitneyLand wrote: post #52

One way to think of ME is, we all woke up one day and discovered we have had high resolution night vision spy cams installed in our bedrooms. The next realization is there is no way to turn them off or remove them. It’s posisble even moving won’t help. And yet we really don’t seem to care much. Lesser issues generate national outrage and high volumes of press coverage. Why? HN may be uniquely positioned to show us th…

> And yet we really don’t seem to care much. I know we're used to "Internet speed" and the tweet happened an entire 24 hours ago, but give it a bit of time before declaring it dead. Wired and Vice need a second to write it up, and see if it hits the mainstream before declaring the issue ignored. Not saying it will get picked up, though I sure hope it does, but as you point out, it's a bit obscure and takes some expla…

> "Still, there are numerous reports that the Facebook app on your phone listens to every word you say".

> "(Typing this, very gratefully, from an ARM Chromebook.)"

Have you installed a non-stock OS on that Chromebook? Google aren't exactly known for being strong advocates of user privacy.

Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#354

Post by ZenoArrow »

d0mine wrote: post #351
Anderkent wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elections have almost certainly been hacked - the security on electronic voting machines is abysmal - and no one seems to care, so I think your 'Russians hacked the elections' example doesn't say what you meant.

There are economic sanctions against Russia. There are no sanctions against Intel. I meant what I said.

The Russian trade sanctions are about their activities in Ukraine, not about the last US presidential elections. Besides, there's plenty of evidence of domestic tampering with US election results and comparatively little done as a result. If election fraud was a big enough issue to effectively stop Moore's Law dead in its tracks then you'd expect much more activity around election fraud without that level of economic impact.

Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#355

Post by ZenoArrow »

valarauca1 wrote: post #182
throwaway230958 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Intel ME and the (assumed [0]) partnership with CIA to design and build this system I worked at Intel on ME and the things that came before it until around 2013. I can tell you two things -- 1. No, Intel ME wasn't born out of a desire to spy on people nor was it -- to the best of my knowledge but I honestly believe I would know -- created at the request of the US government (or others). It was an honest attempt at…

> > Intel ME and the (assumed [0]) partnership with CIA to design and build this system Then why do you need security clearance to work on Intel ME?

Think about it logically for a second. Regardless of the decisions that led up to the inclusion of Intel ME in Intel CPUs (i.e. regardless of whether the CIA was involved or not), compromising Intel ME is still a security risk for Intel customers, so of course they're going to limit access to a select few that they trust, and that the government can trust.

I'm fairly certain similar restrictions will also apply to those who are granted access to knowledge about CPU microcode, which is an equally large security risk that nobody with even a basic understanding of how CPUs work is blaming on the CIA.

Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#356

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

madez wrote: post #298
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Librem laptop is reasonable powerful, and they have effectively neutered the ME. Libreboot replaces firmware for some decade-old server machines lacking a ME (although noisy, they work quite well as a desktop).

The Librem laptop are not an option because they use Intel chips. Buying Intel products supports and finances their current way. They did not even address the grave accusations. There is no way I can give them money.

When Librem was first announced, I had grave concerns too, and I stuck with my Libreboot computers. However, it was just this past month when they showed proof of concept for their Purism phone running KDE plasma on an ARM board without any firmware/driver blob concerns and also showed how they isolated and disabled the Intel ME that I took them seriously, at which point I ordered a labtop and have been very happy.

The amount of money that Intel gets off these chips can't be significant because they are currently over two years old anyways (Q3'15).

Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#357

Post by gaius »

maccard wrote: post #33
nolok wrote: post #32

At first it looks nice "oh now we can get rid of it" but it also opens up a very scary near future security-wise. We've now entered a realm where an attacker could simply plug a device on an usb port of your computer for a few seconds to have it access your cpu's ME through USB JTAG and take over it, allowing him to have full access and control over what you do/read/open/type over the network, without you ever knowin…

I think you're being overly paranoid. If the attacker has physical access to the machine, chances are you're compromised anyway, even before this vulnerability.

If the attacker has physical access to the machine, chances are you're compromised anyway, even before this vulnerability

Can you not see the difference between an attacker opening the case and stealing your HD, vs inserting USB key for a few seconds, then going away, and exploiting later at their leisure?

Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#358

Post by dmitriid »

igor_filippov wrote: post #153
dmitriid wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely they will be quiet because Russia is 100% dependent on foreign technology.

Not the military.

The idea I commented on was to ban Intel chips. Russia cannot do that, military or not. The military accounts for a fraction of a fraction of tech that Russia depends on.

And the military are also dependent on foreign technology. If not for CPUs inside tanks and planes, then for CPUs inside command center computers. (and not just CPUs)

Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#359

Post by dm319 »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #308
madez wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still Intel hardware. But besides that, does the Macintosh work without blobs and mainline Linux? Can I install Debian on it and have stuff working? I'm just tired of uncooperative manufactures.

I've never tried but Debian has a lengthy (if out of date?) wiki page about running it on Macbooks: https://wiki.debian.org/MacBook https://wiki.debian.org/MacBookPro

The latest macbook pros essentially don't work well with linux. I think wifi isn't a solved issue still, for example.

Re: “We have obtained fully functional JTAG for Intel CSME via USB DCI”

#360

Post by oroup »

throwaway613834 wrote: post #250
sametmax wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of ME is that it's invisible. And until then, few people had access to it. Now I can't wait for rogue monero miners to use ME to propagate :)

It doesn't matter if it's visible or invisible. The point is, it cannot go undetected while being used: - If it were to periodically "check in" with an external server to see if it needs to do any kind of spying -- admins would notice the network traffic. - If it needed to be contacted externally to "initiate" any kind of spying at all, that would mean anyone behind a NAT would be safe, and furthermore, the the momen…

Given that the ME has full access to the NIC, outbound traffic could be concealed onboard traffic that is already outbound. If the adversary has also compromised network routers, the traffic could be observed and decoded without explicitly being sent anywhere.

Similarly inbound control signals could be delivered by modifying inbound traffic that the ME observed and decided.

Depending on your throughput needs the signal could be delivered subtly by for example modifying the timing between packets in a way that would be very hard to identify as a signal.

I’m hoping the ME firmware Now gets dumped and studied closely. I’m betting there are some surprises in there

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