wow. considering the kind of people lurking in early cryptocurrencies i won't be surprised if he ends up assassinated fairly soon.
If it happens it would be the first assassination by keyboard ever.
Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
41–50 of 72 posts
Re: Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hypothetical problem... Let's imagine a universe in which milk is a rare commodity, and milkshakes are worth their weight in gold. In this world, right now in 2017, 1 milkshake trades for $100 USD. You have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake. So we each hold the equivalent of $100. I drink your milkshake, effectively stealing $100 from you. Fast forward to the year 2020. Milkshakes are now worth $1,000,000 USD. Have…
Sure, but the appropriate amount, in my mind would have been $100 plus prevailing interest, not some in-kind distribution. Suppose there is only one milkshake in the world and it got destroyed, how would you ever repay the claim except by converting to currency value?
Sure, but the appropriate amount, in my mind would have been $100 plus prevailing interest
Bankruptcy laws determine that. Maybe x% a year? Creditors took them to court and at that moment the court takes over. You should have bought more bitcoins at $400 if you believed in it.
Re: Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
TBF when he fucked you out of it it was only worth $700 or so (based on another commenter's claim that it increased 70-fold in the intervening time). Most similarly situated people could have re-upped that amount of bitcoin back then, but if you chose not to, it's not like Karpeles forced that choice on you. IMO, being mad about the $50k current value of bitcoin that you lost is overstating the harm he did you signif…
Hypothetical problem... Let's imagine a universe in which milk is a rare commodity, and milkshakes are worth their weight in gold. In this world, right now in 2017, 1 milkshake trades for $100 USD. You have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake. So we each hold the equivalent of $100. I drink your milkshake, effectively stealing $100 from you. Fast forward to the year 2020. Milkshakes are now worth $1,000,000 USD. Have…
You stole $100 from me. If the value of milkshakes went down to 0 in 2020, would you say you deprived me of nothing?
This is basically like the people talking about the guy who spent thousands of bitcoins on pizza as if he lost shitloads of money by buying that pizza. Of course he didn't.
Re: Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hypothetical problem... Let's imagine a universe in which milk is a rare commodity, and milkshakes are worth their weight in gold. In this world, right now in 2017, 1 milkshake trades for $100 USD. You have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake. So we each hold the equivalent of $100. I drink your milkshake, effectively stealing $100 from you. Fast forward to the year 2020. Milkshakes are now worth $1,000,000 USD. Have…
Sure, but the appropriate amount, in my mind would have been $100 plus prevailing interest, not some in-kind distribution. Suppose there is only one milkshake in the world and it got destroyed, how would you ever repay the claim except by converting to currency value?
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Re: Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
#45> Over the past three years, from 2014 to 2017, the price of bitcoin has increased exponentially, from around $400 to $7,000, by 17-fold.
This nonsensical sentence made me want to stop reading, esp. after the site requested notification privileges and popped a newsletter modal. Cryptocoin news sites do at least as much to undermine cryptocoin credibility as the billion-dollar scam that they're reporting on.
Re: Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
TBF when he fucked you out of it it was only worth $700 or so (based on another commenter's claim that it increased 70-fold in the intervening time). Most similarly situated people could have re-upped that amount of bitcoin back then, but if you chose not to, it's not like Karpeles forced that choice on you. IMO, being mad about the $50k current value of bitcoin that you lost is overstating the harm he did you signif…
It would also be unfair to assume people would have continued to invest in bitcoin. That's an investment decision, and should not be part of the claim. Imagine if bitcoin had gone to 1/70 instead of 70x, would you still want to be paid back in bitcoins or currency value?
Isn't this the choice you made at filling time when you specified you wanted to be repaid in BTC?
Re: Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
TBF when he fucked you out of it it was only worth $700 or so (based on another commenter's claim that it increased 70-fold in the intervening time). Most similarly situated people could have re-upped that amount of bitcoin back then, but if you chose not to, it's not like Karpeles forced that choice on you. IMO, being mad about the $50k current value of bitcoin that you lost is overstating the harm he did you signif…
Hypothetical problem... Let's imagine a universe in which milk is a rare commodity, and milkshakes are worth their weight in gold. In this world, right now in 2017, 1 milkshake trades for $100 USD. You have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake. So we each hold the equivalent of $100. I drink your milkshake, effectively stealing $100 from you. Fast forward to the year 2020. Milkshakes are now worth $1,000,000 USD. Have…
Assumptions: milkshakes are fungible (I can buy a functionally equivalent milkshake), I have the wealth to acquire a replacement milkshake without significantly shifting the balance of my assets.
Under those assumptions, you have deprived me of the exchange value of my milkshake at the time it becomes known to me that you have misappropriated it. This is my moral judgment, not a legal opinion.
[Edit: I did not take your response as a frank disagreement, and anyway, even if it were, there's nothing wrong about disagreeing with me. I'm not an ethicist, just an opinionated rando.]
Re: Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
#48The longer I look at it, the more Bitcoin looks like a scheme to enrich criminals and enable rogue states to do business. Does it help the world economy that a large handful of people who go into bitcoin early now are controlling millions of dollars that they would have otherwise never, ever seen?
And what of Bitcoins benefits? Anonymous? Not for normal people on coinbase/etc. Fast? Nope. Convenient for shopping? Not unless you are on overstock.com or buying magic mushrooms on silk road. Politically viable? China isn't having it.
Can someone tell me what Bitcoin is good for again?
Re: Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
#49The longer I look at it, the more Bitcoin looks like a scheme to enrich criminals and enable rogue states to do business. Does it help the world economy that a large handful of people who go into bitcoin early now are controlling millions of dollars that they would have otherwise never, ever seen? And what of Bitcoins benefits? Anonymous? Not for normal people on coinbase/etc. Fast? Nope. Convenient for shopping? Not…
I wish I could find the link, and Googling is cluttered:
[0] There was an IMF (or World bank?) paper from the 70s, a .txt was online somewhere
It described "a possible future of digital currency" .. and described Bitcoin with a lot of accuracy.
[1] An analysis theorizing Bitcoin was first mined on networked computers running the same hardware config - something about how the randomness repeated and the rate of new hashes being found & the distribution of those hashes among the early addresses.
Again, sorry I don't have a link, I naively assumed I could just search for this stuff in the future without saving a copy.. it was a Wordpress style blog though.
Re: Mark Karpeles Will End Up Taking $859M from Mt. Gox Bankruptcy
#50We didn't request for our claims to be converted to Yen. The Japanese court representative assigned to the bankruptcy determined the Bitcoin had to be assigned a yen value. He proposed a value that seemed reasonable at the time so most creditors agreed.
Almost all creditors I know, including myself, would prefer to claim Bitcoin instead of Yen but it was simply not allowed by the court. Back then it seemed not really important as the valuation was reasonable and we didn't suspect the process would take so long.
When it became clear that the process would take so long that the Bitcoin value would exceed the claims, people organized a legal defense to have the claims reevaluated, but it would be a very exceptional situation and it is unclear to me what the repercussions of such a precedent would be in Japanese law.
I hope that at least Mark would be convicted and the Japanese state would take from him whatever profits remain from the bankruptcy.