Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol • Hacker News Board

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#91

Post by ranit » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 2:38 AM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #78

munificent wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alcohol is definitely one of the most harmful drugs out there. What is your definition of "harmful" here? Is it just total amount of harm caused, or total harm divided by number of users? If the former, sure, but I think that just reflects how hugely popular it is. If the latter, I'd like to see your data. Some large fraction of the adult population consumes alcohol on a fairly regular basis so I imagine society wo…

> Some large fraction of the adult population consumes alcohol on a fairly regular basis so I imagine society would collapse if it was as harmful on a per capita basis as something like cocaine or heroin. That's a rather dishonest comparison to make. Alcohol consumption is very well recorded and tracked due to its legal nature, the same can't be said about cocaine, heroin and pretty much all the other illegal drugs.…

What is your argument?

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#92

Post by durkie » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 2:39 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #80

dr_ wrote: post #64

The N.Y. Times once reported on the lifespans of the people of Ikaria, who apparently have the longest recorded lifespans, as a group, in the world. Their diet includes moderate amounts of wine. “Wine — in moderation — had been shown to be good for you if consumed as part of a Mediterranean diet, because it prompts the body to absorb more flavonoids, a type of antioxidant” Not a medical research study, but I wonder h…

Are we sure the lifespan thing isn't just a statistical quirk? If you take a thousand small places, one is bound to have the longest-living people in the world.

I think it depends on how much you want to believe the blue zone folks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone

There are many such long lifespan places on Earth, and they have several common characteristics, which would make statistical anomaly at least seem less likely

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#93

Post by ranit » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 2:48 AM UTC

berbec wrote: post #89

ranit wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> unfermented wine Is there such a thing?

Grape juice? I'm not trying to be snarling, I actually am wondering something else is added to grapes to make it pre-wine?

GP already listed it as a separate entity:

..., unfermented wine, dealcoholized wine, grape juice, ...

so, it is not.

>> ... wondering something else is added to grapes to make it pre-wine?

I am really asking, because I don't know, and like you, would like to find out: what is this process that would "unferment" wine. If GP is not just trowing words around he/she should know.

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#94

Post by MarkMc » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 2:51 AM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #56

maxxxxx wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop subsidizing junk food. Stop advertising junk food to children (if it's not ok for children to hear he f word it's also not ok to for them to hear about junk food). Subsidize healthy foods. Tax sugary drinks. Do you want more?

There's no evidence any of this actually works, and most people aren't interested in a government that tries to dictate what they should eat.

> There's no evidence any of this actually works,

There's plenty of evidence that taxing a product reduces demand for that product

> and most people aren't interested in a government that tries to dictate what they should eat.

That's true, but it just underscores the ancestor comment: Social acceptance can make most any evil the norm. People accept that the government should regulate what we drink and smoke, but not what we eat - this is partly due to cultural acceptance of obesity

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#95

Post by dsnuh » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 2:52 AM UTC

hyperbovine wrote: post #3

It would be better to know at what age this increases risk. If a lifetime spent drinking delicious, delicious red wine ends up taking me out 5yrs before Alzheimer's would, so be it.

How old are you? I'm just a touch over 40 and even at this age the poignancy of life really starts to reveal itself to you.

You would trade 5 years of your life for being able to drink wine? Because it's that delicious, right? Sorry, but this is either hyperbole to the point of silliness or you have no idea the value of your life.

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#96

Post by dsnuh » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 2:58 AM UTC

ranit wrote: post #93

berbec wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grape juice? I'm not trying to be snarling, I actually am wondering something else is added to grapes to make it pre-wine?

GP already listed it as a separate entity: ..., unfermented wine, dealcoholized wine, grape juice, ... so, it is not. >> ... wondering something else is added to grapes to make it pre-wine? I am really asking, because I don't know, and like you, would like to find out: what is this process that would "unferment" wine. If GP is not just trowing words around he/she should know.

Perhaps GP meant grapes that hashed been mashed and are in a tank, but not yet to the point of fermentation (be it by introduction of wild yeast or human intervention)? I.e. the "must".

A quick search shows it is derived from there being 2 types referenced in The Bible.

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#97

Post by cvsh » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 3:07 AM UTC

dsnuh wrote: post #69

opportune wrote: post #2

Alcohol is definitely one of the most harmful drugs out there. In terms of addictiveness, physical side effects (short and long term), and the kind of behavior that people are likely to engage in while under the influence, the only things worse are probably IV painkillers and smoked meth/crack. As a society we need to get our heads out of our asses and challenge our notions of what kind of drug use is and isn't accep…

Alcohol is shilled so hard in America. It's disgusting. I honestly don't know why it isn't more strictly regulated. I used to binge drink every few nights when I was younger. Like most people that have drank more than they should have, I have lots of stories of mischief and questionable (at best, sometimes straight illegal) behavior. And these are the stories I used to trade with friends and coworkers. Oh man, they w…

>I honestly don't know why it isn't more strictly regulated.

Because we tried that once and it didn't work out so well

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#98

Post by batiudrami » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 3:13 AM UTC

dsnuh wrote: post #95

hyperbovine wrote: post #3

It would be better to know at what age this increases risk. If a lifetime spent drinking delicious, delicious red wine ends up taking me out 5yrs before Alzheimer's would, so be it.

How old are you? I'm just a touch over 40 and even at this age the poignancy of life really starts to reveal itself to you. You would trade 5 years of your life for being able to drink wine? Because it's that delicious, right? Sorry, but this is either hyperbole to the point of silliness or you have no idea the value of your life.

It depends on what you value. a lot of my life's highlights are those spent over beers with my friends. I'm unlikely to have kids. The way I've seen my relatives struggle in the later period of their lives doesn't appeal to me at all.

But you do have a decade on me and I am certain that adds some perspective. I am much wiser than I was when I was at 20. And I am certainly not pretending that it isn't doing damage.

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#99

Post by baldfat » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 3:19 AM UTC

hyperbovine wrote: post #3

It would be better to know at what age this increases risk. If a lifetime spent drinking delicious, delicious red wine ends up taking me out 5yrs before Alzheimer's would, so be it.

Alzheimer's doesn't come onto you because your old. People in their 40s can come down with it sadly. BUT 85+ you have a 32% chance of getting it. https://www.alz.org/documents_custom/2016-facts-and-figures....

Re: Cancer Doctors Cite Risks of Drinking Alcohol

#100

Post by bretthoerner » Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 3:20 AM UTC

dsnuh wrote: post #95

hyperbovine wrote: post #3

It would be better to know at what age this increases risk. If a lifetime spent drinking delicious, delicious red wine ends up taking me out 5yrs before Alzheimer's would, so be it.

How old are you? I'm just a touch over 40 and even at this age the poignancy of life really starts to reveal itself to you. You would trade 5 years of your life for being able to drink wine? Because it's that delicious, right? Sorry, but this is either hyperbole to the point of silliness or you have no idea the value of your life.

Don't forget that the X years always come off the back end. If you'd speak to my 90 year old grandmother about the poignancy of life right now I think she might have a thing or two to teach you about how great it is at the end.

You've also chosen wine as the enemy here, I bet for any given person earth (including you) we could find something you could have done more of (or not done at all) to improve your lifespan. Very few people trade everything off for life expectancy, and those that do often have dreams of singularity or life extension as their only goal.