The flood
Similar, but the most on the nose example in gaming is The Last Of Us, wherein this type of fungus leapt from insects to humans.
'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
81–90 of 93 posts
Re: 'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
it seems a Victorian concept like "seat of organizational sentience" is rather obsolete. Ha! So you’re telling me that you exist in more than one place simultaneously? ( !!! ) Last time I checked, here I am. One person, one voice, one field of vision. If I were to use my fingers to point to where I , myself, am , then it’d be somewhere between my ears and my eyes. But I suppose that person is somehow... quaint?
Yes, I believe you believe in such an " I ", as do I and I assume everyone on the planet. But I also (to quote Dennett) say things like "the thermostat wants to keep the temperature between 20 and 22 degrees". It has no wont or desire but it's a handy fiction. You only point to your head due to modern science; Aristotle thought the brain was for cooling the blood as the ancient Greeks thought the soul was in the live…
We have a hell of a lot of evidence that learning, planning, processing sensory input, sending out signals to move muscles etc. are all happening in the brain.
> Could it be those with extensive amputations of gut and an articial heart could be "less human" in a broader sense than just mass?
If that's the case, it's pretty subtle. People with an artificial art don't act much differently than those with a normal heart; compare that with people who've had frontal lobotomies.
> But you seem awfully sure there is consciousness. Perhaps there is no such thing and you only think there is?
This line of argument generally rapidly devolves into semantics and quibbling over definitions. Giving a formal definition of consciousness is difficult. You either end up with a definition like "that phenomena where people think and consider themselves a single entity", in which case it's trivially true that human beings have consciousness; or you define it as something vague and metaphysical like "having a soul" in which case it's unprovable whether humans are conscious or not.
I like this passage from the Macmillan Dictionary of Psychology:
"Consciousness - The having of perceptions, thoughts, and feelings; awareness. The term is impossible to define except in terms that are unintelligible without a grasp of what consciousness means ... Consciousness is a fascinating but elusive phenomenon: it is impossible to specify what it is, what it does, or why it has evolved. Nothing worth reading has been written on it."
Re: 'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, I believe you believe in such an " I ", as do I and I assume everyone on the planet. But I also (to quote Dennett) say things like "the thermostat wants to keep the temperature between 20 and 22 degrees". It has no wont or desire but it's a handy fiction. You only point to your head due to modern science; Aristotle thought the brain was for cooling the blood as the ancient Greeks thought the soul was in the live…
No way, dude. There's clinical evidence that such a location in/on the human body represents the true effective residence of human sentience, since snipers target precisely that location to take out their targets, before they have a chance to (even reflexively) react to their wounds. It doesn’t mean a little person reclines in a hammock there, but I’d wager that there’s a resonant, sensation-event-sensitive waveform,…
Your comment echoes my own experience debating the idea of agency / sentience / existence.
No one who makes these types of arguments can justify why they continue to defend their side of the argument if nothing they do matters.
If you truly believe that you do not exist, explain it to me in a way that does not assume your existence. Most of these arguments start with the two words that the most famous argument for existence does, "I think therefore I am".
Re: 'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had another thought which might be even more terrifying. I couldn't find anything suggesting the fungus cuts off or disrupts the ant's actual nerve endings, and from video you can see towards the end that the ant moves in an unnatural, jerky way, not like a normal ant. This could be just because a fungus is bad at acting like an ant, but what if it's also because the ant is actively trying to fight it ?! I don't th…
"the fungus requires use of the ant's nervous system and sensory processing to figure out where a high up place is" How do you know this?
I’d suspect, and offer, with zero proof, that the fungus has hooked into temperature regulation channels, and ants tend to seek warm/bright, high and dry areas in cold rain, to camp out until they can dead-reckon their way back home if they can’t smell their colony.
Maybe the ant is simply reacting to sensations of cold temperature, and maybe it goes blind, setting off reactions to wander away from the ground, search for bright areas to warm up when in dark unfamiliar tunnels.
Re: 'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
#85Re: 'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, I believe you believe in such an " I ", as do I and I assume everyone on the planet. But I also (to quote Dennett) say things like "the thermostat wants to keep the temperature between 20 and 22 degrees". It has no wont or desire but it's a handy fiction. You only point to your head due to modern science; Aristotle thought the brain was for cooling the blood as the ancient Greeks thought the soul was in the live…
No way, dude. There's clinical evidence that such a location in/on the human body represents the true effective residence of human sentience, since snipers target precisely that location to take out their targets, before they have a chance to (even reflexively) react to their wounds. It doesn’t mean a little person reclines in a hammock there, but I’d wager that there’s a resonant, sensation-event-sensitive waveform,…
> There's clinical evidence that such a location in/on the human body represents the true effective residence of human sentience, since snipers target precisely that location to take out their targets, before they have a chance to (even reflexively) react to their wounds.
It tells you no such thing. In a distributed system if you take out the main ethernet switch (interconnect) you can bring the whole system to a halt, but that doesn't mean the computation happens there.
Now, no kidding: there's a massively parallel (80 G neurons x 10^ fanout) machine with a ~ 100 Hz clock inside your skull, but there's a lot of computation going on elsewhere. Look at what I said about all the neurotransmitters in your gut, not to mention the rest of your reticulated nervous system. And people do plenty of things all the time (e.g. hit a baseball) that require a response and feedback faster than the nervous system can transmit from the big bag o' neurons to the wrist.
I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm saying there's far, far from enough evidence in contemporary neuroscience to support the level of confidence you exhibit in your theory of mind.
Re: 'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which cell of your brain is the seat of sentience? I know little about ants and maybe that analogy sucks, but it seems like it could easily not be anything more specific than the colony as a whole.
Well, we have clues that it exists above the chemical layer, and above the cellular layer, since any individual person is capable of sensory processing at a fidelity measurable to auditory sample rates beyond tens of thousands of cycles per second, and visual frame rates above 30 before we notice flicker. That tells you that a continuous signal is captured and integrated across the organ (the brain) in real time.
> That tells you that a continuous signal is captured and integrated across the organ (the brain) in real time.
Not only does it not tell you any such thing but there is pretty good evidence that that is not what's happening. Look at the amount of data collected via the fovea during a single saccade and tell me one collects "frame" data in any way comparable to one's conception of what is happening in front of your body at that time.
Re: 'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
No way, dude. There's clinical evidence that such a location in/on the human body represents the true effective residence of human sentience, since snipers target precisely that location to take out their targets, before they have a chance to (even reflexively) react to their wounds. It doesn’t mean a little person reclines in a hammock there, but I’d wager that there’s a resonant, sensation-event-sensitive waveform,…
> There's clinical evidence that such a location in/on the human body represents the true effective residence of human sentience, since snipers target precisely that location to take out their targets, before they have a chance to (even reflexively) react to their wounds. It tells you no such thing. In a distributed system if you take out the main ethernet switch (interconnect) you can bring the whole system to a hal…
I dunno. We’ve seen lots of (well maybe a number of famous) cases where an entire hemisphere gets taken out by stroke or trauma, and the sense of self manages to recover.
The brain is extremely sensitive to status across the rest of the body, but based on amputations and circumstances involving life support, viral pathology and hypoxia, there’s strong evidence that time keeping and concept of self sit just above the floor of the brain pan, near the optic nerve’s main cross-over, between the ears. (give or take and inch or two)
Re: 'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
#89More "zombie" (behavior-altering) parasites: https://www.damninteresting.com/nugget/mind-controlling-wasp... https://www.damninteresting.com/nugget/body-snatching-barnac... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior-altering_parasite Also rabies and toxoplasmosis.
Parasite that eats the tongue of a fish than takes up residence in its place:
Re: 'Zombie ant' brains left intact by fungal parasite
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, we have clues that it exists above the chemical layer, and above the cellular layer, since any individual person is capable of sensory processing at a fidelity measurable to auditory sample rates beyond tens of thousands of cycles per second, and visual frame rates above 30 before we notice flicker. That tells you that a continuous signal is captured and integrated across the organ (the brain) in real time.
> That tells you that a continuous signal is captured and integrated across the organ (the brain) in real time. Not only does it not tell you any such thing but there is pretty good evidence that that is not what's happening. Look at the amount of data collected via the fovea during a single saccade and tell me one collects "frame" data in any way comparable to one's conception of what is happening in front of your b…
You misinterpret my reference to "frame rate." And you're cherry picking.
In the sense that flicker is detectable, when we view a movie in a dark room, we know there are frames in a film reel, if the shutter speed of the projector mechanism operates below a certain frame rate, as an artifact of the media. I'm not claiming that any sort of digital recording occurs, only that the stream of sensory stimulation has a degree of fidelity.
That stream of stimulation affecting the chemical sensitivity of our eyes produces a continuous signal, and go ahead and try to tell anyone that a human brain cannot resolve the visual signal carried by the optic nerve. No one will argue with you but only because it's simply not a conversation worth having.