I broke my arm a decade or so ago. The doctor wasn't able to set my bone without relaxing my extremely tight muscles. Morphine worked great for that. I sincerely doubt that an NSAID could have done this, or even something like a Soma (Carisoprodol).
As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
51–60 of 161 posts
Re: As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not the case when you suffer major 3rd degree burns. When you need morphine in the case of say regrowing nerve endings in a damanged limb advil will not cut it, not even medical cannabis will cut it, there are still cases where giving a patient morphine is appropriate.
The discussion around opiate abuse isn't about the extreme cases. Yes, if I get 3rd degree burns then I want to be as out of it as possible until the pain goes away. The problem isn't the extreme cases, it's the every day ones. Opiates are being massively over-prescribed in cases where OTC medicine or a shot of whiskey would suffice, and this over-prescription is a driving force behind the addiction epidemic.
> or a shot of whiskey would suffice
Not sure if you said it in jest or not but alcohol is also highly addictive, prone to abuse, and harmful to your health and IMO would really not be a step in the right direction.
edit: I almost added to my comment "It's almost taboo in our society to mention this fact" but didn't. I was almost immediately down voted so I guess maybe I'm not wrong...
Re: As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
#53an initial prescription of just a few days' worth of pills can trap patients into using the highly addictive, often deadly drugs for a year or more I call BS on this. Maybe if you have an unresolved underlying chronic pain, this could be true. But many people get a hydrocodone prescription after surgery or dental work and do not go on to become addicts. And no, Tylenol is not great for acute pain. It does very little…
Can you link to the studies that you've performed that demonstrate this? Because there havebeen multiple discussions on this site where studies have proven that people _do_ get addicted over short term, unnecessary high doses.
Take a look at this: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/opioid-...
>According to the large, annually repeated and representative National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 75 percent of all opioid misuse starts with people using medication that wasn’t prescribed for them—obtained from a friend, family member or dealer. And 90 percent of all addictions—no matter what the drug—start in the adolescent and young adult years.
>A Cochrane review of opioid prescribing for chronic pain found that less than one percent of those who were well-screened for drug problems developed new addictions during pain care; a less rigorous, but more recent review put the rate of addiction among people taking opioids for chronic pain at 8-12 percent.
Re: As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
#54The study abstract: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/26615... . This study appears to be too new for sci-hub to have it; it is extremely unlikely that the Ars Technica writer read the study at all.
The headline here says the study "finds opioids no better", but what actually happened is that the study was too small to reach statistical significance on any of its endpoints.
More importantly, the study chose the top of the recommended dose range for the ibuprofen+acetaminophen group but the bottom of the recommended dose ranges for the oxycodone+acetaminophen, hydrocodone+acetaminophen, and codeine+acetaminophen groups. This strongly suggests that the study designers knew what outcome they wanted, and arranged subtle details of the study (which are hidden behind a paywall!) to make sure they got it.
Re: As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
#55Those opioid doses are all super low, roughly equivalent to a single Tylenol 3. The alternative is a super high dose of acetaminophen. 1/4 your daily recommended maximum. At roughly 3x the acetaminophen + the fairly high dose ibuprofen I don't think there is anything really surprising about this.
You couldn't take that acetaminophen dosage for more than 8 hours with 2 hour dosing without hitting your daily maximum. I'm skeptical that opioid alternative with such a low dosage over such a short period of time has any real chance of being addition forming.
Re: As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
The discussion around opiate abuse isn't about the extreme cases. Yes, if I get 3rd degree burns then I want to be as out of it as possible until the pain goes away. The problem isn't the extreme cases, it's the every day ones. Opiates are being massively over-prescribed in cases where OTC medicine or a shot of whiskey would suffice, and this over-prescription is a driving force behind the addiction epidemic.
> or a shot of whiskey would suffice Not sure if you said it in jest or not but alcohol is also highly addictive, prone to abuse, and harmful to your health and IMO would really not be a step in the right direction. edit: I almost added to my comment "It's almost taboo in our society to mention this fact" but didn't. I was almost immediately down voted so I guess maybe I'm not wrong...
Yeah, but what is it, 1/8 Americans are already alcoholics, so 12% of the time you're not making things any worse!
Re: As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
NSAIDS are not benign. Digestive problems are so common with long-term use that some doctors think that they should co-prescribed with omeprazole and other agents to head them off. (Long-term omepraloze will give you B-12 deficiency if you don't supplement; it is an unusual side effect, but I can't sleep if I take omeprazole. Cardiovascular risk from Vioxx was enough to pull the drug from the market; risk is also see…
Cannabis works pretty well and has minimal side effects, at least compared to those you describe.
It's almost certainly not as well studied over long term large populations though.
Re: As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
NSAIDS are not benign. Digestive problems are so common with long-term use that some doctors think that they should co-prescribed with omeprazole and other agents to head them off. (Long-term omepraloze will give you B-12 deficiency if you don't supplement; it is an unusual side effect, but I can't sleep if I take omeprazole. Cardiovascular risk from Vioxx was enough to pull the drug from the market; risk is also see…
Cannabis works pretty well and has minimal side effects, at least compared to those you describe.
Perception changes with cannabis are a significant negative side-effect.
Re: As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
#59Of course while YMMV, I've found the same thing - I've been prescribed opioids for pain, and I found that Advil worked just as well, without the side effects. I do understand that opioids have their place - for example I was told that Advil was not safe to take before surgery so I was stuck with the prescription meds. On example that made an impression on me: a couple of years ago, I had arthroscopic surgery on a kne…
NSAIDS are not benign. Digestive problems are so common with long-term use that some doctors think that they should co-prescribed with omeprazole and other agents to head them off. (Long-term omepraloze will give you B-12 deficiency if you don't supplement; it is an unusual side effect, but I can't sleep if I take omeprazole. Cardiovascular risk from Vioxx was enough to pull the drug from the market; risk is also see…
This study only looked at acute pain. Generally those medications are safe for acute pain.
(Unless by 'safe and effective' you mean NEVER have side effects, in which case we probably don't have any 'safe and effective' medications.)
Chronic pain is difficult to deal with and wasn't addressed in this study. Generally opiates are not recommended, but its tough to find other alternatives that are consistently safe. Opiates often end up being used and... epidemic. (... == long complicated story)
Re: As epidemic rages, ER study finds opioids no better than Advil and Tylenol
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
NSAIDS are not benign. Digestive problems are so common with long-term use that some doctors think that they should co-prescribed with omeprazole and other agents to head them off. (Long-term omepraloze will give you B-12 deficiency if you don't supplement; it is an unusual side effect, but I can't sleep if I take omeprazole. Cardiovascular risk from Vioxx was enough to pull the drug from the market; risk is also see…
Cannabis works pretty well and has minimal side effects, at least compared to those you describe.
Cannabis has pretty awful side-effects for me. It gives me absolutely incredible nausea, to the point where I've tried it ~10 times in varying doses, thinking my dosage was an issue, and out of those I was violently ill 4 of the times. The other 6 times were simply unenjoyable.
It doesn't just go away like alcohol either. If I drink too much and throw up, I feel better within a few minutes. For cannabis I remain high afterwards, so I've become pretty hesitant about it.
That being said, it is very likely less addictive and has far fewer side-effects for those who it helps. For that reason I am extremely positive about legalizing it and studying it further. :)