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Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

wid.world

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Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#211

Post by tuna-piano »

jacobolus wrote: post #171
tuna-piano wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet even the poorest in the US still have TVs and refrigerators. I don't dismiss that life is difficult for many, but I also realize that they're working hard for a higher standard of living than is possible in many other times in history and many countries today. And in actuality, the poorest quintile in the USA is the quintile that works the least hours, not the most! Why do the top 20% of Americans work so muc…

Pointing out that poor people (especially poor ethnic minorities) have cellphones and TVs and that many have trouble finding and holding jobs without doing any further investigation of people’s circumstances or any attempt at empathy is a favorite talking point of race-baiting politicians on the right who want to drum up outrage in support of cutting basic social services and public infrastructure, so they can return…

All fair points - it’s all a matter of perspective. I’m saying “poor people are better off in the brutally capitalist US than in communist Laos or in 1800s America.”

You’re saying “poor people have a lot of difficulties.”

I also believe that capitalism is the reason for that improvement in standard of living, especially for the poor, which is why i make the point.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#212

Post by tuna-piano »

NeoBasilisk wrote: post #203
tuna-piano wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet even the poorest in the US still have TVs and refrigerators. I don't dismiss that life is difficult for many, but I also realize that they're working hard for a higher standard of living than is possible in many other times in history and many countries today. And in actuality, the poorest quintile in the USA is the quintile that works the least hours, not the most! Why do the top 20% of Americans work so muc…

Oh my god, I can't believe I just saw an unironic use of the "TVs and refrigerators" argument. Of course it was on HN.

Look at the poor in Bernie Sanders types economies in Venezuela or Cuba and tell me how many TVs they have.

Maybe the US should be more like Denmark, maybe not. But when inequality comes up the socialists come out, so i make the point.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#213

Post by refurb »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #180
tuna-piano wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would ask, what courts, tax laws, civil laws, etc are you referring to? Of course they impact the outcome, but which of those do you think is unfair or antithetical to my point about the free market? I think the tax thing is a huge misconception that just isn't backed up by reality. The US still has a progressive tax system, even after taking into account the many rules (or the mysterious and nefarious "tax breaks"…

The federal income tax is a small part of the annual taxes paid in the US, you aren't showing enough information to provide more than a guess about how fairly the tax system is working.

Look up the total federal tax rate, it's available. It's not skewed as much as just federal income tax, but it's still significantly skewed.

The top 5% pay 53% of all federal taxes including social security and Medicaid.[1]

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15573269

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#214

Post by AcerbicZero »

lumberjack wrote: post #136

Michael Sandel explains why economic inequality matters. https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_sandel_why_we_shouldn_t_tr...

His philosophy class on justice is also worth checking out.

http://justiceharvard.org/

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#215

Post by conanbatt »

rayiner wrote: post #27
jpwagner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milton Friedman's three categories for human equality: equality before God, equality of opportunity and equality of outcome - the second is compatible with liberty, and the third is socialism.

I’m not sure the second is compatible with liberty either, unless you water it down to mean nothing. Do you stop parents from passing on good genes, education, values, and money? If not you’ve got a very impoverished version of equality of opportunity. If so you’re impinging on some very fundamental freedoms.

Equality of opportunity is one of the hardest things to define. Milton talks about the opportunity to pursue your talents. But your talent could be really expensive, so what does that actually mean? The son of a wealthy man might have the funds to become a rocket engineer, wasn't that an unequal opportunity to develop talents?

And is there a point to prevent that rocket engineer from existing?

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#216

Post by fishcolorbrick »

Mz wrote: post #190
joe_the_user wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet even the poorest in the US still have TVs and refrigerators. Homelessness has skyrocketed in the US. The poorest here have neither TVs nor refrigerators (except the few their salvaging for the scrap metal value). The homeless generally don't have paid employment (meaning ordinary waged employment) since their appearance keeps them from being hired by most businesses but being homeless is a hellish amount of w…

The homeless generally don't have paid employment I would be interested in seeing your stats. I worked while homeless. I did freelance writing and, later, resume writing. I have known homeless individuals with regular jobs. I don't know what the statistics are. But I would be very interested in seeing stats on how many/what percent of homeless have some kind of earned income, if you know of any reliable data on the t…

I set up an OLAP cube for the biggest charity for the homeless in Portland, OR and in my experience no-one locally has good data on the homeless. It is a demographic which is difficult to survey.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#217

Post by conanbatt »

danharaj wrote: post #5
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #3

What does 'Income Equality' look like?

Abolition of class. Democratic control over the means of production.

Democratic control? You mean that 51% can bar the other 49% from having access to the means of production?

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#218

Post by Mz »

fishcolorbrick wrote: post #216
Mz wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The homeless generally don't have paid employment I would be interested in seeing your stats. I worked while homeless. I did freelance writing and, later, resume writing. I have known homeless individuals with regular jobs. I don't know what the statistics are. But I would be very interested in seeing stats on how many/what percent of homeless have some kind of earned income, if you know of any reliable data on the t…

I set up an OLAP cube for the biggest charity for the homeless in Portland, OR and in my experience no-one locally has good data on the homeless. It is a demographic which is difficult to survey.

Yes, I figured. I have had a college class on homelesness and I run a homeless blog. The OP already replied and clarified. It is all good.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#219

Post by chmln »

namenotrequired wrote: post #187
MR4D wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the problem is that the inequality leads to behavior that protects the inequality. Oddly, that statement (which I completely agree with) has nothing to do with being rich or poor. People in power want to stay in power - whether it's the US or a failing state like Venezuela, they use that power against others. I'd much rather be in a rich but unequal society - it's much more peaceful.

> a rich but unequal society - it's much more peaceful. That's not true. Violence is caused by inequality. Areas where everyone's equally poor are about as peaceful as areas where everyone's equally rich. It's dramatic inequality that causes violence. This is true no matter whether you look at neighborhood level, city level, national level etc.

Violence doesn't have much to do with inequality. They might be weakly correlated, but you'd have to go far beyond that to establish causality.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#220

Post by croon »

tuna-piano wrote: post #212
NeoBasilisk wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my god, I can't believe I just saw an unironic use of the "TVs and refrigerators" argument. Of course it was on HN.

Look at the poor in Bernie Sanders types economies in Venezuela or Cuba and tell me how many TVs they have. Maybe the US should be more like Denmark, maybe not. But when inequality comes up the socialists come out, so i make the point.

Bernie Sanders type economies are Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Germany, etc...

I took your initial posts as a sound argument I disagree with, now I think you're trolling.

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