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Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

projekte.sueddeutsche.de

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Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#721

Post by dangerlibrary »

libertyEQ wrote: post #681
dangerlibrary wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment asserts that corporate tax has zero impact on corporate profit. If you don't fully agree with that statement, you may want to consider whether you fully agree with everything you wrote.

>Your comment asserts that corporate tax has zero impact on corporate profit. I didn't intend to "assert" that, and I think it's fair to ask you to elaborate, as I believe there are assumptions embedded in your interpretation of what I wrote. edit: Grammar. edit1: Do you think Apple incorporates the cost of the tax burden into the price of an iPhone? I think it really comes down to whether you think Apple would reduc…

Imagine a world where there is no corporate tax. Apple does a price analysis and decides the profix maximizing sales point of a phone is $1,000. They price the phone at $1,000.

Then, a 10% corporate income tax rate is put in place.

Does Apple raise the price of the phone to $1,100? Is that now the profit maximizing decision?

According to your claim "Ultimately, only people pay taxes," the answer is yes - Apple would immediately raise the price of the iPhone to offset the loss incurred by the new tax. Except that then, fewer people would buy iPhones. We already know that $1,100 is not the profit maximizing price point for a phone. So, the amount Apple would increase its price is a function of the price sensitivity of iPhone buyers.

This is a little tricky to explain, but khan academy has a video that explains it quite well.

https://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/microec...

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#722

Post by musage »

ttoinou wrote: post #621
liberte82 wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch Chomsky's Requiem for an American Dream if you want a great analysis of the cyclical nature of corporate power being further and further entrenched as they gain more power to write the laws that benefit them.

Chomsky's solution? Moar state !

Quote him. Don't interact with your own straw man, face the man.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#723

Post by ick »

newlyretired wrote: post #713
eggpy wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. Here's just one example: fine-grained taxes are used to help influence behavior, improving public health. Mexico increased taxes on sugar [0], with the result being a fall in consumption. Raising this tax has caused a verifiable reduction in consumption, which has a direct impact on public health[1]. That's just one example, many more exist for all sorts of reasons. It's why cigarettes and alcohol ar…

Many people believe this is an overstep on the government's part. These people believe it's not the government's job to be paternalistic and nudge people into the "right direction". This is based on the complete abhorrence of "scope creep" mixed with near total surveillance and control over the use of force. Those with that much power should not be able to enforce social mores, even if they reflect the will of the pe…

>Those with that much power should not be able to enforce social mores, even if they reflect the will of the people at the time.

What else are laws for?

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#724

Post by eggpy »

newlyretired wrote: post #713
eggpy wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. Here's just one example: fine-grained taxes are used to help influence behavior, improving public health. Mexico increased taxes on sugar [0], with the result being a fall in consumption. Raising this tax has caused a verifiable reduction in consumption, which has a direct impact on public health[1]. That's just one example, many more exist for all sorts of reasons. It's why cigarettes and alcohol ar…

Many people believe this is an overstep on the government's part. These people believe it's not the government's job to be paternalistic and nudge people into the "right direction". This is based on the complete abhorrence of "scope creep" mixed with near total surveillance and control over the use of force. Those with that much power should not be able to enforce social mores, even if they reflect the will of the pe…

What if we frame it as a financial problem, not a well-being problem. Argument: it is in everyone's best interest if fewer people smoke. Smoking overwhelmingly affects poorer citizens who are already more reliant on social services. And since effects are tied to age, older smokers will more heavily put a burden on both the healthcare system as well as the entire insurance market (including Medicare/ Medicaid). Ergo it is in everyones best interest to disincentivize as many people from smoking as possible. Raising a tax on cigarettes is a cheap, quick, and effective means to do so, while raising funds for the very same health services they are likely to be using in the future.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#725

Post by ttoinou »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #717
ttoinou wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control of the society What does it even mean ? How do you make the government accountable, transparent and openly documented ? Mystery to me

>How do you make the government accountable, transparent and openly documented ? Mystery to me Sure but less of a mystery than how we can make corporations transparent, accountable and openly documented.

Producing information is costly. There is a market for it but no general magic solution (this applies to both govt and companies, but I guess it's easier to look into a bunch of small companies rather than one huge govt).

Corporations are accountable of the wrong they do to third parties. It's the whole point of having a judicial system.

How do you control a govt ? By rioting and voting every 4 years ? Here's how it can work for companies : http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/MarketforCorporateControl...

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#726

Post by ttoinou »

musage wrote: post #722
ttoinou wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chomsky's solution? Moar state !

Quote him. Don't interact with your own straw man, face the man.

Yes you are right. I actually was a fund of him years ago. 'More state' is definitely the feeling I remember of him

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#727

Post by ttoinou »

pfranz wrote: post #716
ttoinou wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chomsky's solution? Moar state !

(I haven't watched the doc or followed Chomsky much) I think a lot of the contention is putting faith in the "the market" (but I would hope even staunchest libertarians realize at times that can be disproportionately large companies) or governments. I feel like the extremes on both sides put too much faith in one or the other. To keep each other in check one can't be too much larger, or wield too much power over the…

I put my faith in voluntarily actions, competitive entreprises, innovative ideas and good mechanisms of check and balances.

The first word that comes to my mind is 'free market', not 'huge government'..

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#729

Post by xyzzyz »

dontreact wrote: post #67
icebraining wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most cash "parked" abroad is being invested in stocks and other financial instruments - and much of it in the US - not kept in a checking bank account. In fact, Apple's "Irish money" is managed by an Apple subsidiary in Reno, Nevada, and is invested in all kinds of assets in the US.

Wow. And then they use the returns here? This sounds like money laundering (even if it technically isn't).

Suppose you, as a random Irish citizen, want to buy a car in the US and just drive around during the 6 months of your tourist B2 visa stay. Should you pay income tax on the money you bring to the US to buy a car? I don't think so. Similarly, should you pay income tax on the money you bring to US to buy some stocks? I don't think so either.

Now, the company that brings the money to invest in the US stocks is just some random Irish company that just happens to be owned by US company Apple Inc.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#730

Post by SamReidHughes »

eggpy wrote: post #545
qznc wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My (ultra-simplistic) idea would to only tax land and VAT. Abolish all other taxes. Unfortunately, governments like fine-grained taxes because it gives them the illusion of control.

That's not true. Here's just one example: fine-grained taxes are used to help influence behavior, improving public health. Mexico increased taxes on sugar [0], with the result being a fall in consumption. Raising this tax has caused a verifiable reduction in consumption, which has a direct impact on public health[1]. That's just one example, many more exist for all sorts of reasons. It's why cigarettes and alcohol ar…

Sugar consumption isn't contagious. I would call that an improvement to private health.
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