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Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

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Re: Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

#41

Many of my friends have stopped using Uber in favor of Lyft. Is this a real trend, or just something I see in Silicon Valley tech circles?

How long until there are so many competing brands that an umbrella app is developed to interface with all of them? It seems the inevitable nature of startup market.

Re: Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

#42
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Edit: The parent post was edited. Are other employee evaluation schemes free of appearance of sexism (or actual sexism), or is it harder to see?

The edit wasn't necessary to support the first sentence. There are thousands of tech companies, large and small, and most of them monitor employee performance. Meanwhile: allegations of sexist bias in review processes are infrequent enough to be newsworthy. QED.

A quick google immediately shows pages like this one [] which frets about sexism without including the words "stack" or "ranking." It has the usual citing of questionable concepts like implicit bias, or the Bloomberg article's "unconscious bias."

What I would like to know is, suppose you need to make a system in a large organization in an attempt to lay off your 10% worst employees. It's pretty reasonable to expect sexist rankings, even made by non-sexists, and to also expect beliefs by individuals, wrongly held, that their personal low rank was the result of sexism. How do you determine whether an organization's ranking system is sexist, in which direction, and by how much?

[] https://blog.impraise.com/360-feedback/how-performance-revie...

Edit: By non-sexists, I mean, like, non-garbage people.

Re: Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

#44
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The edit wasn't necessary to support the first sentence. There are thousands of tech companies, large and small, and most of them monitor employee performance. Meanwhile: allegations of sexist bias in review processes are infrequent enough to be newsworthy. QED.

A quick google immediately shows pages like this one [] which frets about sexism without including the words "stack" or "ranking." It has the usual citing of questionable concepts like implicit bias, or the Bloomberg article's "unconscious bias." What I would like to know is, suppose you need to make a system in a large organization in an attempt to lay off your 10% worst employees. It's pretty reasonable to expect s…

You asked a simple, straightforward question with an easily obtainable answer, which I provided. I'm not interested in the new tangent you're trying to start here, sorry.

Re: Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

#45
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, yes. Problems like this are endemic to zero-sum schemes like stack ranking.

How? Edit: The parent post was edited. Are other employee evaluation schemes free of appearance of sexism (or actual sexism), or is it harder to see?

If you rate employees using objective metrics, then you can avoid sexism. The problem with stack ranking is, as the article said, it forces managers to use subjective measurements to rank employees because they're forced to put the employees in a particular order (instead of saying two employees performed the same). Once you start using subjective measurements, it's almost impossible to avoid having biases creep in.

Re: Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

#46

Many of my friends have stopped using Uber in favor of Lyft. Is this a real trend, or just something I see in Silicon Valley tech circles?

Data: https://www.recode.net/2017/11/8/16617798/uber-delete-uber-l...

It is a real trend, but doesn't represent 'most' users.

Re: Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

#47

Why not normalize the rankings? It seems that at volume, that sexism should be the only remaining factor when looking at overall averages. Unless you really believe that "women are worse drivers". Normalize them to the average for each sex.

This is talking about employees, not drivers, and you cannot "normalize" stack ranking. The whole point of stack ranking is you're putting the employees in order from best to worst. They're not given numeric ratings.

Re: Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

#48
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Edit: The parent post was edited. Are other employee evaluation schemes free of appearance of sexism (or actual sexism), or is it harder to see?

If you rate employees using objective metrics, then you can avoid sexism. The problem with stack ranking is, as the article said, it forces managers to use subjective measurements to rank employees because they're forced to put the employees in a particular order (instead of saying two employees performed the same). Once you start using subjective measurements, it's almost impossible to avoid having biases creep in.

The problem is you can't rate employees by objective metrics (like, line of code count) without them getting gamed, unless you can tie them directly to company success.

Re: Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

#49
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you rate employees using objective metrics, then you can avoid sexism. The problem with stack ranking is, as the article said, it forces managers to use subjective measurements to rank employees because they're forced to put the employees in a particular order (instead of saying two employees performed the same). Once you start using subjective measurements, it's almost impossible to avoid having biases creep in.

The problem is you can't rate employees by objective metrics (like, line of code count) without them getting gamed, unless you can tie them directly to company success.

But you can rate them by metrics such as are they completing all their assigned work in a reasonable amount of time, and are they producing code that's up to the quality standards of the team (which could be measured by tracking whether they're introducing new bugs).

Re: Uber's Employee Ratings Put Women at a Disadvantage, Suit Says

#50
post #9

I think there is a growing problem in our society, or at least what appears in media, wherein any systematic discrepancy is blamed automatically on some kind of discrimination, without consideration of the possibility for consistent differences in merit between subpopulations.

"To the privileged, equality feels like oppression." Change doesn't happen in a vacuum, and what you describe as "a growing problem in our society" feels like the beginning of a long-overdue good start to many others.

>"To the privileged, equality feels like oppression."

There's a fun study that actually measures this effect: "Lay misperceptions of the relationship between men’s benevolent and hostile sexism", by Amy Yeung. The data goes the "other way" though: when men treat men and women equally, they are perceived to be sexist.

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