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America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

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271–280 of 406 posts

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#271

Full disclosure: I am the co-founder and lead developer at https://www.locally.com . We do exactly what I describe below and we're seeing great results. People want to buy from their local stores. They just need the modern paths to purchase: BOPIS (buy online pick up in store), local delivery, and the knowledge oh what is in stock nearby. IMHO, the real path forward for retail is to get their in-stock goods in front…

Hi phirschybar, in the future please put the "FULL DISCLOSURE" part up top, rather than as an after thought.

It didn't feel very good to read your comment and then only find out at the end that you have both a personal and professional stake in the matter.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#272
post #271

Full disclosure: I am the co-founder and lead developer at https://www.locally.com . We do exactly what I describe below and we're seeing great results. People want to buy from their local stores. They just need the modern paths to purchase: BOPIS (buy online pick up in store), local delivery, and the knowledge oh what is in stock nearby. IMHO, the real path forward for retail is to get their in-stock goods in front…

Hi phirschybar, in the future please put the "FULL DISCLOSURE" part up top, rather than as an after thought. It didn't feel very good to read your comment and then only find out at the end that you have both a personal and professional stake in the matter.

@plies, cool. just edited.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#273
post #97

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply becau…

The sad reality is that much of America, particularly suburban America but even in cities, public gathering places are nearly non-existent. The shopping mall (or more recently, lifestyle center, Festival Marketplaces, etc) is the closest thing many have to the town square or decently appointed public park.

However, the mall isn't a public space and things a healthy society allows for - protest, hand holding, being different looking, aren't necessarily allowed in a mall.

Regardless if a mall is preferable in 100 degree heat or -10 degree cold, those other spaces are important for other reasons.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#274

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

Malls reliably have enough parking. Getting downtown is a major (and slow) production, particularly if your downtown is progressive enough to intentionally deter access by car.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#275

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

There are two problems with downtowns, in a tiny city, giant city, whatever.

First of all downtown already has a purpose which is to extract middle class home equity, run it thru the retail and restaurant wringer where 95% of businesses fail in the first two years or whatever. Its easy for the city to run downtown; the city doesn't have to worry about parking, for example, because those businesses are designed to fail and new suckers appear as fast as home equity loans can be sold so they don't need parking for businesses that don't have customers LOL. This also becomes self fulfilling, downtown is for dead businesses so why would I go there unless I had to because by definition the businesses downtown suck or they wouldn't be downtown where businesses go to die?

Secondly the downtown has drunks, criminals, crazy people, panhandlers, drug addicts in various state of withdrawl, buskers, homeless, and many/most cities are constrained to the light touch, which is nice for those folks, but also means nobody wants to go there. Crazy people have to go somewhere, and downtown has the church mission and a park by the river and a liquor store for self medication. I'm not even remotely interested in hanging out with those people, so I'll go to the Target at the interstate exit instead, or more than a generation ago I'd have gone to a mall where security is at least not non-existent. Your example of a park bench will have a homeless person sleeping on it, the scenic pond will have a drunk peeing in it, the cafes nobody wants to sit at because of aggressive panhandlers and the smell of excrement from the streets and alleys... You're asking for the whites-only exburbs where the average sales price is above $800K to keep out the riff raff that's 30+ miles out of town, I live by those places and they're cool but unachievable for 90% of the population. I live in the 3rd richest suburb in my metro area and even here our downtown is dying, getting overrun. The economy of the future is clustered around interstate exits not some arbitrary place where a railroad put a depot 150 years ago.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#276
post #24

Retail is the prime example of middleman business. The middleman businesses don't produce anything by themselves and attempt to extract profits via information asymmetry and/or some value adds such as geographically closer availability. Eventually both of these should be done by machines. Throughout the history technology has been killing off middleman businesses such as travel agents, insurance agents, stock brokers…

I know all you alpha-nerds just never want to leave the house and could live in a 20foot square cube and sit on the toilet with your laptop while only consuming auto-delivered soylent and a caffeine IV drip for all you care, but let me help you all out with a little in understanding this retail thing: Retail is mostly about entertainment now, primarily for women. Women like to shop for clothes and try stuff on. They…

> Retail is mostly about entertainment now, primarily for women. Women like to shop for clothes and try stuff on. They like to be taken out to restaurants and movies and go to these with their friends. They like to go see their personal trainer at the gym. They like to go and get their hair and nails done and gossip. They send their kids to the math tutor. They send their littler kid to gymboree. They have a coffee at Starbucks.

This paragraph is so ridiculous. All of it is just little patronizing insults about women for normal things men and women like to do. As a male, I also like shopping for clothes, going to restaurants and movies with my friends (women are 'taken'), going to the gym (women go 'for their personal trainer', because we all know they can't do it alone), and getting my hair cut and nails worked on (women also need to gossip). I've even heard tell of men sending their kids to tutors and gymborees and having coffee at Starbucks. Crazy, right?

It's interesting that you start by insulting the parent with this generalization about their 'alpha-nerd' status, and then drop straight into a parody of men's and women's stereotypes from the 1950s, and then finish with a pablum point about people still wanting to leave the house.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#277

in general, it is difficult for me to separate a reasonable concern borne of the knowledge that a thriving economy is important from a sense that, so far, the big retail chains that are closing many locations sell junk that i both do not want and think is largely superfluous anyway. Anyone got a reasonable way to synthesize those competing thoughts?

Optimistically, it means that workers will be freed up to do things that are more important. Cynically, all you (a generic programmer type) really need is food, lodging, a laptop, an internet connection, so anyone not producing or repairing those things are superfluous to you, which is actually the majority of humanity (even if you include infrastructure and supply chain). "Humanity" itself becomes a wasteful, carbon…

> so anyone not producing or repairing those things are superfluous to you

But we don't program in a void, right? Somebody has to create work for us and those would be the ones doing "superfluous" things. In other words, nobody would need our programming if all they did was supporting our programming.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#278
post #270
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It feels like a lot of malls have basically optimized themselves for a customer base that is not really sustainable.

Mall security is what is unsustainable. I'm old by HN standards gen-X and I grew up with mall security hating me. Now mall security has under 18 kids arrested, which is worse. The point is for decades of formative years "the mall is that place where they hate me because of who I am". So its understandable that now that I'm in their prime demographic (older, financially well off) that I have no interest in going there…

I think you make a lot of good points. Not having grown up in the US, I don't have an immediate aversion towards malls. And as a guy who loves fashion, malls offer me a way to checkout a whole bunch of different styles, which is worth the slightly higher prices (at least for me anyways). Besides, they do have sales when the prices are somewhat better.

But even I have embraced online stores. Every major fashion brand has an online store, and its just much too convenient to order online rather than have to drive to a mall etc.etc. I would rather, read a book or hang out with friends over a beer.

Which brings me to an excellent observation you made: most stores in malls are reorienting to serve more women. I think women love the social aspects of shopping (i.e. trying out new clothes with friends and getting their opinions) as much as the actual shopping itself, which is probably why many women continue to go to malls.

I think Malls are missing out on some great opportunities to be entertainment centers. They get the footfall; instead of orienting towards selling shit, they should be trying to provide some kind of experience.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#279

Articles like this are starting to ring little bells for me. There's an argument that the government's reaction to the 1999 financial crisis (and the 1998 Russian bond crisis, which figures in) is what inflated the housing bubble [1], which started to show cracks in 2006 and 2007 (with the Bear Stearns fund collapses) and then went full-bore once things started unwinding in 2008 as home prices started to fall, and th…

Krugman and keynesians think that all (aggregate) demand is equal. Austrian school adherants understand that bubbles are fuelled by central planning and malinvestment.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not disagreeing completely, but your location might be influencing your answer. I live in the northern portion of the USA, we get freezing winters and blistering summers. Come mid-winter...I am not going downtown to walk around outside, we don't hang out outside (unless we are talking winter sports, and then FULLY clothed). In summer, there needs to be shade. Fall and spring, we get wet. But really, it seems like…

North Americans are too soft. I live in Toronto and it's wonderful to have nice streets that you can walk and bike on, even at ±30C.

As my brother-in-law in Maine says, "There's no bad weather, just bad clothing."
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