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America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

bloomberg.com

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Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#211

Post by Domenic_S »

nradov wrote: post #130
pascalxus wrote: post #60

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

Santana Row has been fairly successful in creating a sustainable artificial "downtown" mall in suburban San Jose. No ducks or waterfalls, but they frequently have live music and the café is decent. http://www.santanarow.com/

It's super fancy-pants though, and literally across the street from a traditional mall (that seems to be doing just fine!)

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#212

Post by lithos »

astura wrote: post #182
onion2k wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply becau…

How young? Many malls have banned people under 18 unless accompanied by a parent or guardian. This practice started around 10 years ago. Just in case anyone doubts me: http://www.parenting.com/news-break/why-your-teen-getting-ba... >Up to 80 malls across the United States enforce a curfew or escort policy for teenagers I was still looking young in 2008 despite being well into my 20s and that's when I got IDed at a ma…

I learned to hate malls in the same way.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#213

Post by javajosh »

One strong headwind to this trend is fraud. Seller fraud is well-known, and payment systems have bent over backward to insure this, but buyer fraud is even more popular these days. It's easy to cheat a seller:

I'd like to see more intimate online shopping experiences involving at least a short (30s) video call between buyer and seller, at least for first-time customers. It would be particularly potent to make pleasant greetings, express joy at the opportunity to shop/serve, show the credit card on the video monitor, a photo-id, plus incidentals that give a sense for who you are. That way fraud only happens with full-blown identity theft, and now you have a good image of the thief to help the victim get relief, and you can even add the thief to a buyer blacklist. (Interestingly the video evidence format helps avoid the case where a seller blacklists people they "just don't like".)

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#214

Post by cr0sh »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #191

Retail stores don't sell what I want. Their inventory has become too limited. After the dot com bust/mini recession, most department stores stopped stocking clothes in my size so I buy much of it online. I frequently try to hold out and find some electronic item or replacement part in local stores. I almost always fail and resort to Amazon. I'm currently looking for a cheap Bissel vacuum that is available on Amazon.…

Have you tried going to an independent vacuum cleaner sales/repair place and asking them to order it for you, and pay them the markup for the time and effort? Sure, it wouldn't be cheaper than Amazon, but if you want to support local business, it is an option (if you have such a place in your area).

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#215

Post by irrational »

itswhateverman2 wrote: post #128
onion2k wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply becau…

I think you misunderstand. Malls only end up as a social gathering spot when there's nowhere else to go. And even then, that only really appeals to teenagers who have nothing else to do. A mall would never be preferable to what was mentioned above, a downtown with brick paths and quality scenery/stores, etc.

Where I live it rains for 9 months out of the year (and is very hot 2 of the other months - we maybe get 1 month of nice outdoor weather a year). I'd much prefer an enclosed space. Though, let's be honest, I'd really prefer someone to just drop my purchases off at my doorstep so I don't have to deal with the weather at all.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#216

Post by georgeecollins »

pascalxus wrote: post #60

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

I'm not going to defend malls, but clearly there needs to be some kind of market place where people can encounter things they don't expect. We are already experiencing a media landscape with a filter bubble. Views become more narrow and extreme. You are going to need to have a place where you see things you think you wouldn't buy or want, otherwise your experience of world is going to get more narrow.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#217

Post by seem_2211 »

mac01021 wrote: post #142
crisdux wrote: post #42

I'd imagine this is also partly due to the America's demographic changes and the aging population. The large baby boomer generation is retiring and entering a period in their lives where their consumption is lower. Generation X is smaller and can't keep up the consumption. Generation Y is slowly entering a consumption phase.

Why is consumption lower after you retire? You've finally got time to spend all that money that you've been spending all your time earning.

Most people don't save much.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#218

Post by phnofive »

narrator wrote: post #52
sytelus wrote: post #24

Retail is the prime example of middleman business. The middleman businesses don't produce anything by themselves and attempt to extract profits via information asymmetry and/or some value adds such as geographically closer availability. Eventually both of these should be done by machines. Throughout the history technology has been killing off middleman businesses such as travel agents, insurance agents, stock brokers…

I know all you alpha-nerds just never want to leave the house and could live in a 20foot square cube and sit on the toilet with your laptop while only consuming auto-delivered soylent and a caffeine IV drip for all you care, but let me help you all out with a little in understanding this retail thing: Retail is mostly about entertainment now, primarily for women. Women like to shop for clothes and try stuff on. They…

Setting aside your rudeness and the sexist tone of your second paragraph, can you share any sources that support your opinion of the current trend in retail?

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#219

Post by rconti »

hkmurakami wrote: post #192
ericseppanen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at Stanford Shopping Center in the satellite view sometime: a bunch of rectangles surrounded by an ocean of surface parking. It's much more like a conventional mall than a downtown: It's effectively walled off from the rest of the neighbordood. You're expected to go there by driving your car, and it's isolated by its massive parking lots so nobody would consider walking in or out a pleasant experience.

That's true -- but it's a requirement of SV suburbia tbh. Density isn't high enough anywhere to support retail activity without a huge investment in parking, even in downtown MV or PA. The personal vehicle oriented commutes exacerbate this.

Yes, but downtown Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Mountain View, San Carlos, hell, even Redwood City are the polar opposite of the Stanford Mall. The fact that a bunch of vendors of overpriced trinkets happens to have outdoor passageways is more a factor of the good weather of the bay area than it is an indicator of some kind of difference from your generic indoor megamall.

There's a difference between needing parking, and surrounding an area with a moat of parked cars.

I think one big problem retail is facing is that, for a long time, efficiency won the day. The chains and their supply chains and economies of scale drove more and more mom and pops out of business, and then only the really efficient chains could survive, and then they had to refinance and take on all this debt that the article mentions, and pretty soon there's absolutely nothing to mourn, and no reason not to buy from Amazon rather than drive to a Best Buy. Some truly unique independent mom and pop or local shops could be worth spending a few bucks more than Amazon to patronize. GenericMall stores give me 0 reason to patronize them over Amazon.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#220

Post by jogjayr »

cwbrandsma wrote: post #122
pascalxus wrote: post #60

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

I'm not disagreeing completely, but your location might be influencing your answer. I live in the northern portion of the USA, we get freezing winters and blistering summers. Come mid-winter...I am not going downtown to walk around outside, we don't hang out outside (unless we are talking winter sports, and then FULLY clothed). In summer, there needs to be shade. Fall and spring, we get wet. But really, it seems like…

Completely agree that weather makes a huge difference to how much you enjoy strolling outdoors over being in a mall.

My main complaint about malls is how _loud_ they are: visually and auditory-ly (someone please tell me what the right word is). Malls are crowded, adorned in bright, garish colors, filled with stale food court food smells. There is very little seating other than at food courts, water fountains are hidden far away in some corner, loud music plays almost all the time, or it's noisy because of all the people. In sunny Silicon Valley, parking is a nightmare but there'll only be one bike stand hidden in a 50 acre space. It somehow has all of the worst features of a busy bazaar with almost none of the good (local products, "authentic"-ness, ability to haggle etc). Just standing in a shopping mall stresses me out.

It's possible that the present state of the art of mall design ticks the boxes for the largest audience possible and I'm the weirdo.

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