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Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

wid.world

101–110 of 248 posts

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#101
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, lowered inequality is a good metric for success but it's very popular these days for it to be sold as a complete solution in itself. The problem with pure redistribution as a model for increasing wealth in developing countries, or stagnant wealthy ones, is that you can only take someones money and give it to another person once. You can't transfer a wealthy persons ability to generate wealth to another person or…

"You can't transfer a wealthy persons ability to generate wealth to another person or country." When wealth generation is coming from rent collection on existing assets, redistributing wealth and redistributing wealth generation are equivalent.

In other words, wealth is the means of production.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that's fair :) My pre-coffee take was a bit too spicy.

If we're being fair, nonsense is not a nice way of starting any kind of conversation.

I'm definitely going to have to disagree with that.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#103
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, lowered inequality is a good metric for success but it's very popular these days for it to be sold as a complete solution in itself. The problem with pure redistribution as a model for increasing wealth in developing countries, or stagnant wealthy ones, is that you can only take someones money and give it to another person once. You can't transfer a wealthy persons ability to generate wealth to another person or…

>lowered inequality is a good metric for success For measuring the success of what, exactly? Economic success? Average incomes? Doesn't seem to be a very good metric for either. Lowered inequality seems to me to be a good metric for measuring the success of attempts to lower inequality, and not much else.

It's a good metric for success at giving everyone equal opportunity at birth.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#105
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Median instead of Average would be most illustrative

Not really. What if the top 55% made over $1,000,000 (or $100,000) per year and the bottom 45% made less than $20,000 per year? The median would look pretty nice.

Would still be more informative than the average.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#106
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world would be moving away from poverty a lot faster if there was less inequality.

Yes, lowered inequality is a good metric for success but it's very popular these days for it to be sold as a complete solution in itself. The problem with pure redistribution as a model for increasing wealth in developing countries, or stagnant wealthy ones, is that you can only take someones money and give it to another person once. You can't transfer a wealthy persons ability to generate wealth to another person or…

You can't transfer a wealthy persons ability to generate wealth to another person or country.

Isn't that exactly the VC model?

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#107
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milton Friedman's three categories for human equality: equality before God, equality of opportunity and equality of outcome - the second is compatible with liberty, and the third is socialism.

I’m not sure the second is compatible with liberty either, unless you water it down to mean nothing. Do you stop parents from passing on good genes, education, values, and money? If not you’ve got a very impoverished version of equality of opportunity. If so you’re impinging on some very fundamental freedoms.

It's equality of opportunity, not equality of ability.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that we should tax the poor? Wouldn't that just make it more difficult for them to pay off debts and collect the capital required to escape poverty?

No he's pointing out that we 'anti-tax' the poor currently via entitlements and maybe we shouldn't as much because it allows them a sustainable way to not escape poverty.

Following that argument, if we taxed them, their ways to not escape poverty would be even less sustainable. Victory!

Ridiculous conclusion from a simplistic argument.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we want to get into zinger rhetoric I might reply that the 1st is theocracy and the 2nd is a lie, or also socialism. If not, we might say consider all 3 (excluding the one that doesn't exist) relative. We never have absolute equality of opportunity or outcome, but we can have more or less equality.

zinger point taken, but consider: 1 - compared to a rock, all humans are equal (note: this is not a political statement and has no relationship to theocracy) 2 - if a unit of food sits on the ground between two people, they are free to behave however they want, either can choose to pick up the food or not - this is liberty 3 - given that a unit of food when found will be split evenly (by some process out of an indivi…

:)

I have a lot of time for liberal philosophy including even those like Milton Friedman and others from his (and our) era, where I tend to disagree with many of their conclusions. But, most liberal thought tends towards very hard definitions, of things that are (IMO) not that hard (objectively true in all cases) in reality.

It's an obvious problem in moral philosophy. You start from benign definitions of good and bad, like "greatest good for the greatest number." Then liberal philosophers push that to the extreme, usually weird moral dilemma scenarios. Killing fat men with mining carts to save skinny people. Infanticide. Involuntary euthanasia. Instead of admitting that your "moral maxim" or whatnot is really more of an approximation or a guideline really, they conclude that all this stuff which seems really bad and immoral is actually good.

The american liberalism (or conservatism, libertarianism and other bad, illogical names for it) is rife with this sort of thing, IMO. The concept of liberty is defined using simple, made up examples. Platonic ideals. Then it's applied to the real world. At some point, using the term "liberty" to describe it becomes defensible only by very academic, long winded philosophical argument. To the person who's liberty is supposedly at stake, it seems odd that these philosophers are calling it liberty.

I suspect this is why only very academic, extremist or philosophical types (or australians) call it liberalism or libertarianism (this one carries its own ironies). Everyone else just calls it conservatism.

Re: Explore Wealth and Income Inequality in the World Wealth and Income Database

#110
post #52

Changing the graph from "Share %" to "Average Income or Wealth" shows a much more optimistic looking chart, with every country ramping upwards, almost at an exponentially positive rate. The world as a whole is moving away from poverty and quality of life is improving which IMO is the most important metric here. Far more important to the average person than the relative wealth ratios at the top vs the bottom, which ye…

The average would or at least could be a rather poor metric, most people could get poorer and the average could still rise. Besides that people certainly care a lot about inequality and, in my opinion, that is absolutely justified. You don't become a billionaire by producing goods worth billions with your own hands, you become one by letting a lot of people work on the factory floors and taking a share from the value they produce. And because you can, you don't take a share that makes you ten times better of than your workers as compensation for the risks you took, you take a share that makes you thousands of times better of.
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