Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#61

Post by noonespecial » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:02 PM UTC

rabbite wrote: post #25

Five paragraphs in, the root of many of her problems: "Her savings long gone, and having never done much long-term financial planning" Six paragraphs in, the root of elderly problems nation-wide: "Nearly one-third of U.S. heads of households ages 55 and older have no pension or retirement savings and a median annual income of about $19,000" Is it possible that the lack of long term financial planning, aka saving mone…

If the cost of health care isn't fixed soon, no amount of savings will be enough.

At todays prices, as soon as the normal ailments of aging set in, nearly everyone will be drained of savings sooner rather than later.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#62

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

40acres wrote: post #7

Both of my parents are in this situation, and it's only exacerbated by the fact that my mom had to retire due to spinal surgery and my dad has a bad hip injury that he refuses to get surgery for because he fears missing rent. Despite my willingness to help with the rent and bills I can only provide so much as I live in a high COL area as well. The next 15-20 years are going to be very, very tough for older Americans.

[deleted]

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#63

Post by nnfy » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #37

nnfy wrote: post #21

>Her savings long gone, and having never done much long-term financial planning And so again we are expected to pay for the mistakes of others. What incentive is there to save if you know you have a social net to save you anyway? Yes, I understand, it is a terrifying way to live, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but if we deincentivize personal responsibility, what stops this from becoming a larger problem? How can this…

There are many nations with a similar level of development and wealth as the United States. How prevalent is this problem in Canada? In Europe? You propose "personal responsibility" as the solution to this, but does Canada or Europe depend more on "personal responsibility" or less than the US?

Are you sure that the problem doesn't actually exist in Europe and Canada? Are you sure it isn't offset by a culture where the young are expected to care more for their elders?

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#64

Post by porfirium » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #19

wincy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or if, you know, we had social values where it’s OK to have your children take care of you.

And those, like the woman in the story, who don't have children?

Everybody is supposed to have children despite what our hedonistic view of life might say.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#65

Post by toasterlovin » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #12

wincy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or if, you know, we had social values where it’s OK to have your children take care of you.

And when your children can't really afford to take care of themselves ? The problem runs way deeper than Oh But The Degeneracy Of The Family can address it.

There is no circumstance in which elderly living with their children is more expensive than living on their own. Having one rent in stead of two is a huge cost savings.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#66

Post by ianai » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #44

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if nothing is done by society to fix the problem.

How much additional obligation do the rest of us have to people who had their entire child-free lives to save money and didn't, already receive a check from the government every month, and get free health care? Do individuals have no responsibility at all for their own situation?

Yes! You assume she ever had two pennies to push together to put toward saving and that saving would have been enough. All the evidence is to the contrary. Frankly, government spending is completely independent of government income. The government could create whole economies based upon shoveling mountains from one place to another ad naseum without fear of run away inflation or other issues. Some could say that’s what the DOD already does.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#67

Post by sharemywin » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #28

rayiner wrote: post #20

> But there is little money to see the sights. She earns too much to receive food stamps, and a lot of it goes to groceries. She tries to eat organic food, with her low blood sugar. That rules out cheap but filling Big Macs — as well as the food kitchens whose mass-produced meals, she decided, are unhealthful. Why do newspapers use as examples people who seem to have done everything wrong? Is it because formerly midd…

> In a rural town it would be enough for a decent living. It most certainly would not be. Survivable? Probably. Decent? Absolutely not. And Medicare recipients still have out of pocket requirements, that's the whole reason Medicare supplement insurance exists. The average out of pocket expense for Medicare recipients in 2014 was over $4,000. Tell someone making $1,400 a month they need to budget $350 a month for heal…

Probably like $2400-$2800 if it's a pension and social security.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#68

Post by turc1656 » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

"...and faced yet another nasty choice between need and want. Should she go to the dentist, or take a guided tour of buildings designed by her favorite architect, Frank Lloyd Wright? Each cost $100. She picked Frank Lloyd Wright. Her teeth could wait."

Wow, with decisions like that it's no wonder that woman is in a bad position. Honestly, though - am I supposed to feel bad for someone like this? You can bet that if I was barely scraping by I would not be spending $100 on a guided tour of a building, or at a restaurant getting prime rib (something the article mentions she also did). I wouldn't be eating out at all or doing anything that involved any sort of discretionary income because I didn't have any. She doesn't have any but she act like she does. It's not rocket science that the numbers don't add up in the end.

Gee, I wonder...should I go to Peter Luger's for dinner this Friday or pay my gas and electric? Tough call.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#69

Post by nnfy » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:05 PM UTC

iaw wrote: post #59

epistasis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many nations with a similar level of development and wealth as the United States. How prevalent is this problem in Canada? In Europe? You propose "personal responsibility" as the solution to this, but does Canada or Europe depend more on "personal responsibility" or less than the US?

Ayn Rand, arguably a strong proponent of "personal responsibility", required welfare at the end of her life. She made some justifications for how she could live off of welfare but still did it. When times are personally good it's easy to make arguments about what people should do, but when you're in a situation with no support things feel a lot different.

> but when you're in a situation with no support things feel a lot different.

The fact that things feel different in hard times does not change whether objectively they are right or wrong.

Re: Too poor to retire, too young to die (2016)

#70

Post by rayiner » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 6:05 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #28

rayiner wrote: post #20

> But there is little money to see the sights. She earns too much to receive food stamps, and a lot of it goes to groceries. She tries to eat organic food, with her low blood sugar. That rules out cheap but filling Big Macs — as well as the food kitchens whose mass-produced meals, she decided, are unhealthful. Why do newspapers use as examples people who seem to have done everything wrong? Is it because formerly midd…

> In a rural town it would be enough for a decent living. It most certainly would not be. Survivable? Probably. Decent? Absolutely not. And Medicare recipients still have out of pocket requirements, that's the whole reason Medicare supplement insurance exists. The average out of pocket expense for Medicare recipients in 2014 was over $4,000. Tell someone making $1,400 a month they need to budget $350 a month for heal…

You can buy a 5BR house in Sibley IA (downtown, walkable to the grocery store and general store) for $330/month in mortgage. Add $350 in health care and you’ve still got $700 per month. Tight, yes, but definitely decent.