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Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

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Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#141

Post by imron »

hasenj wrote: post #139
imron wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How did you count 30? Counting paths from the first node to the "NO" node rather than just counting total edges leading to the "NO" node. Many of the conditions you mentioned are themselves determined based on various other conditions, and/or only triggered if certain paths (but not others) are followed. > You can check these conditions sequentially and if any of them match, return false. Not so. For example, you c…

No matter. I transcribed that list in a matter of 5 minutes with no knowledge about the application (I haven't used slack in a long time). I'm not going to get it right in 5 minutes. It will obviously take time. But, this is not the kind of thing that justifies, for example, having 20 engineers to work on this one problem for three weeks. It's still a simple thing for one person to handle in a couple of days. I don't…

> It's still a simple thing for one person to handle in a couple of days.

I don't disagree, I just think it's more effort than the 'regular function with about 30 lines of code' you first mentioned.

Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#142

Post by ShannonAlther »

foxhop wrote: post #132
KajMagnus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this @mention is a bit more complicated than what one might think. For example: If someone creates a post, without any @mention, then edits it, and adds a @mention — then, do you detect this, when looking at the edits, and send a @mention notification now? And what if s/he edits the post again, and removes the @mention, then, do you remove the notification? Cancel the email if it hasn't been sent yet? And if the…

What if the @mention user decides to change his/her display name, now you need to parse @mention into a unique id and save that in the database with comment body and then translate it back when you serve it to the currently chosen @mention name...

Why would you allow users to change their display name? It's a forum, not social media.

Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#143

Post by foxhop »

I really like this movement of going back to the basics, web 1.0 style web apps/sites.

I do feel however that there can be a compromise, I think we can build our web applications in the 1.0 style and power them up in the 2.0 style, allowing the capability of the client drive the presentation of the application.

For hints on how I'm doing this for Remarkbox (https://www.remarkbox.com) - please read http://russell.ballestrini.net/capability-driven-presentatio...

Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#144

Post by vog »

foxhop wrote: post #143

I really like this movement of going back to the basics, web 1.0 style web apps/sites. I do feel however that there can be a compromise, I think we can build our web applications in the 1.0 style and power them up in the 2.0 style, allowing the capability of the client drive the presentation of the application. For hints on how I'm doing this for Remarkbox ( https://www.remarkbox.com ) - please read http://russell.ba…

This is a nice goal, especially if you need portability all the way down (... to IE 5.5 or something).

However, for any larger web application, this increases the testing effort dramatically, as you need to test all possible sets of capabilities (i.e. all kinds and versions of browsers and other clients). This becomes quickly unbearable burden, unless all functionality is 100% provided and battle-tested by the framework.

Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#145

Post by oblio »

adbachman wrote: post #135
hasenj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these are small things.

Which is exactly the point the original poster was making. Software development on "simple" consumer apps is death by a thousand cuts.

It seems amusing that developers, of all people, wouldn't realize the power of exponentiation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_and_chessboard_problem :)

Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#146

Post by combatentropy »

elnygren wrote: post #133
candiodari wrote: post #52

The irony is that because of the lean structure behind the server, this forum actually responds faster than most webfora that do use AJAX/SPA. Funny given that the whole purpose of AJAX/SPA was to reduce response time. That's it's reason for existing. Turns out it just complicates things ...

I think what you say makes no sense at all. The idea of AJAX/SPA was to provide interactivity and a less technical UI that caters to the average Joe. AJAX/SPA moves some of the computation from the backend to the frontend so the service scales better for millions of users. This forum is not going to be fast for millions of users (it might not even be for hundreds of simultaneous users) because the server has to rende…

> AJAX/SPA was to provide [...] a less technical UI

I hadn't heard that reason before. Can you please talk more about this?

> This forum is not going to be fast for millions of users (it might not even be for hundreds of simultaneous users) because the server has to render everything again for everyone.

This theory doesn't match reality. In reality, multipage applications are faster than single-page ones. In fact, most things on the internet still are multipage, including web forums. Most web forums are powered by PHPBB, a multipage web app, and they were powered by PHPBB 15 years ago, when hardware and PHP were much slower. This very site is a multipage web app, and it holds up just fine, even though it has enough users to bring down other websites.

Single-page applications seemed like they would be faster, but usually they aren't.

First, let's look closer at a multipage application. All of the scripts, styles, and images should be cached after loading the first page, if you set the headers right (the Expires header, mainly). Therefore, what is left? The content. And I have found that the size of the HTML content is often close to the size of the same thing in JSON --- at least the way I write HTML (I try to keep it lean. Few classes, extraneous divs, etc.). This is because JSON has all those keys:

    {
        "color": "red"
    }
while HTML has just the values:

    red
That was a simple example, but I measured a bigger one, and the size turned out to be about the same, especially after compression. All of those HTML tags compress well, because of repetition.

Now if they are the same size, then they should load in the same time. Except they don't. The server-rendered page loads faster. Why? Because of progressive rendering. When just some of the HTML has come down the pipe, the page appears. But with AJAX, all of the JSON must first load, then be parsed, then wrapped in a template, then inserted into the DOM. Then it appears all at once.

Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#147

Post by woodrowbarlow »

foxhop wrote: post #143

I really like this movement of going back to the basics, web 1.0 style web apps/sites. I do feel however that there can be a compromise, I think we can build our web applications in the 1.0 style and power them up in the 2.0 style, allowing the capability of the client drive the presentation of the application. For hints on how I'm doing this for Remarkbox ( https://www.remarkbox.com ) - please read http://russell.ba…

the term for this is "progressive enhancement".

Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#148

Post by foxhop »

woodrowbarlow wrote: post #147
foxhop wrote: post #143

I really like this movement of going back to the basics, web 1.0 style web apps/sites. I do feel however that there can be a compromise, I think we can build our web applications in the 1.0 style and power them up in the 2.0 style, allowing the capability of the client drive the presentation of the application. For hints on how I'm doing this for Remarkbox ( https://www.remarkbox.com ) - please read http://russell.ba…

the term for this is "progressive enhancement".

I think the term is still being decided, I referenced where I learned the terms here: https://resilientwebdesign.com/

Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#149

Post by foxhop »

ShannonAlther wrote: post #142
foxhop wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the @mention user decides to change his/her display name, now you need to parse @mention into a unique id and save that in the database with comment body and then translate it back when you serve it to the currently chosen @mention name...

Why would you allow users to change their display name? It's a forum, not social media.

Checkout Remarkbox, I generate them a random display name when they sign up and then allow them to change their display name later.

Regardless of the type of application, why would you not want a user to be able to change their display name?

If I was able to change my display name on hacker news, I think I would.

Re: Show HN: Orange Forum – Web 1.0 style forum written in Go

#150

Post by reacharavindh »

foxhop wrote: post #143

I really like this movement of going back to the basics, web 1.0 style web apps/sites. I do feel however that there can be a compromise, I think we can build our web applications in the 1.0 style and power them up in the 2.0 style, allowing the capability of the client drive the presentation of the application. For hints on how I'm doing this for Remarkbox ( https://www.remarkbox.com ) - please read http://russell.ba…

I looked into your work - remarkbox and read through all the while hoping/wishing for there would be a self-hosted version that is not prohibitively expensive for a free personal blog. No luck for me. Back to tinkering with self-hosted isso[1] comment system to make it work for me. https://posativ.org/isso/
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