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Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

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Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#201

Post by eru »

cm2187 wrote: post #184
eru wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A flat tax on income would help, but it's still a tax on income, and so you can move that around with clever transfer pricing etc. Land value tax works even better: it's physically impossible to move or hide land.

Flat tax is not just about removing thresholds, but also using the same tax rate across the board. If you tax in the same way income, capital gains or corporate profits, don't give a tax exemption for debt, don't charge a stamp duty on property (or charge the same rate on the purchase of all assets, property or not), etc, then you kill all these tax schemes.

Isn't that usually called a broad based tax or so? I mean I mostly agree with what you are saying, just noting that I'm used to different terminology.

Yes, it's a good idea to put eg debt and equity on the same level; don't tax transactions that improve economic efficiency (tax consumption instead for example).

Land value tax is still a great idea for these and other reasons. Eg you can jack the lvt really high and basically tax away all land rent without negatively impacting the economy. So even in an otherwise 'flat tax world' like you describe, it might be a good idea to get the majority of revenue from taxing land rent (and in the wider sense, resource extraction and commons like pollution carrying capacity).

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#202

Post by eecc »

nickpp wrote: post #151
sfifs wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those with wealth will always try to capture the system - whether its formal or informal. The natural state of any business is to try and become a monopoly because that maximizes rent taking ability - NOT competition. Practically the ONLY power able to stop monopolies from forming is the government. In absence of the government's ability to "meddle", businesses can and will cut deals with big competitors and squelch…

Monopolies are granted by governments. The free market has a natural solution to monopolies, it's called competition - startups. Big Cos will always lobby governments to add rules and regulation to raise the barrier of entry on their market and thus reduce competition. They, in fact, buy their monopoly from the government. Solution? Take away the government's ability to grant monopolies.

"The free market has a natural solution to monopolies, it's called competition - startups."

Please provide proof that markets never fail and indeed that the ideal Free Market exists. Take the time, I'll wait...

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#203

Post by marincounty »

auxym wrote: post #106
hackerguy99 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it hits the fan, and you want to come back to the US for safety, unmolested, you'll be able to. Should that be free?

It is in Canada, Europe...

Doesn't Canada, and most of Europe tax their citizens much higher than we (US) do?

Tax money that is spread around with new roads, free school, free medical care, minimal homelessness?

Stuff that make the masses happy? I'm sorry, but if you don't want to pay taxes; leave.

I'm not talking about the poor, and middle class, I'm talking about the rich boys--Them.

They love this relatively safe, free from corruption country when it's benefiting them--usually when their coming up in life; then decide they pay too much in taxes.

In the fifties, we taxed the rich boys up to 90%. I don't think they whined too much because most where thankful we won WW2, and they weren't affected, or had to serve.

Now--the rich boys won't shut up over their capital tax gains tax.

(I'm not actually for a big government. I just know they wealthy are making too much now. I hate taxes as much as the next guy. I would like to see capital gains only taxed if you are constantly winnng. The guy who hasen't been employed for years, but makes his first million shouldn't be taxed until he's one of Them.)

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#204

Post by nickpp »

pjc50 wrote: post #158
nickpp wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopolies are granted by governments. The free market has a natural solution to monopolies, it's called competition - startups. Big Cos will always lobby governments to add rules and regulation to raise the barrier of entry on their market and thus reduce competition. They, in fact, buy their monopoly from the government. Solution? Take away the government's ability to grant monopolies.

This is a reductionist view that ignores economies of scale, real barriers to entry, the actual requirement for regulation for most markets to function, not to mention basic safety. Or are you campaigning for the abolition of patents as a concept?

I am, in fact, skeptical on the ability of patents to stimulate innovation. I think that in a free market the prospective profits should be enough.

See software, where patents are mostly used to destroy competition.

However in heavily regulated markets, with huge barriers of entry, like pharma, they may be necessary. But again, that's the result of government intervention, so more intervention is the solution.

At the least, I am in favor of gradually reducing patent terms while measuring the effect on the innovation in that market.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#205

Post by Joeri »

styx31 wrote: post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

There's a terrific opportunity here for a financial company that specializes in tax havens for small business. Bundle together ten thousand mom and pop shops, and you have enough resources to do this kind of financial wizardry.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#206

Post by philliphaydon »

As Long as tax’s remain high, they will be avoided. Raising taxes on the 1% or raising corporate taxes on businesses it only going to make the issue worse.

America probably wouldn’t need such high tax if it didn’t have such a terrible government system.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#207

Post by tallanvor »

earthtolazlo wrote: post #111
erickj wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving abroad, I now fully understand the feeling behind "Taxation without representation is tyranny".

You are welcome to give up your American citizenship if that income tax becomes too burdensome for you.

That's an incredibly ignorant comment.

When you give up your US citizenship and the process is complete, as far as the US is concerned, you might as well never have been a citizen at all. This means that when you want/need to visit the country (such as to visit a sick or dying family member), you can be denied entrance - the claim they'll use is that you don't have enough "ties" to your new country for them to be certain that you won't try to stay illegally.

While not everyone goes through that, it can and does happen.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#208

Post by dennis_jeeves »

Got to chuckle when articles like this appear. Essentially it means this:

I paid my taxes, you haven't. Translated it means ( in my opinion): I got robbed, but you didn't get robbed, and I feel envious of you.

Taxes are an extortion by the government and it is fair game that anyone should try and evade it legally or otherwise. Extortion cannot be justified even if some of the money is used to deliver useful services to the people who have to part with the money.

Summary: people get the government that they deserve.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#209

Post by philliphaydon »

dx034 wrote: post #168
greyman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point about Apple hiring best graduates who got their education mostly free of charge cause of all the tax payers really shift my mind about the whole tax-avoidance thing. Yes, that's true, but another angle is, that when the corporation profits are very high, let's say $40B yearly, then at 20% profit tax they should pay $5B. And that looks like a too high, government didn't spend nearly that much on providing…

You don't just pay taxes to get back the same amount. Taxes also include redistribution of wealth. In the US, a significant amount pays for social welfare and health insurance for the poor and elderly. That companies with healthy profit margins pay for this appears fairer than if it's just paid by small companies.

Lol tax isn’t about redistribution it wealth.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#210

Post by m_st »

Great letter that is part of a great movement right now. It's not just Apple, but they're an easy target and rightly so. It has to start somewhere.

I'm confident they're doing their usual 'wait for a week' until we get a reply.

And then I hope, just like with the ecological issues after the Greenpeace accusations, Apple will finally start doing the right thing and pay rather than trying to escape.

- A happy Apple user

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