Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 429 posts

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#171

Post by masterrex »

friedButter wrote: post #124
SkyPuncher wrote: post #45

I deeply understand the need for H-1B's for bringing in highly talented individuals. However, I can't stand how the argument seems to completely ignore the Americans who are displaced because of abuse of the H-1B system. It seems a bit deceitful to paint this story solely through the lens of "immigrants" while lots of Americans are being directly replaced by H-1B workers. I do not expect to go to another country and…

Which is the class of poor Americans being displaced by H1B workers earning in excess of 100k at companies like Microsoft,Amazon,Google,etc which are constantly hiring anyways?

White males. Laugh, disregard it - but it's true. If you're a poor white male, you don't really get a lot of assistance. I don't get special grants for being white, I don't get a padded SAT score, I don't get preferential treatment - in fact, it's the opposite. Not all white males are born with a silver spoon, and they're certainly not all given an 'equal opportunity' when a "diverse" person of lesser intellect can get financial and logistic support and lauded for being born a different race.

Frankly, over time the average white American family is going to find it more and more difficult to afford higher education, as if by design, to push them out of the middle class. Meanwhile, poor non-whites will be granted scholarships based on non-whiteness.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#172

Post by hkmurakami »

Apocryphon wrote: post #155
hkmurakami wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go to a "pretty good" college in Japan (Most often the "March" colleges and above", generally you have a solid paycheck, good social prestige, and decent (though declining) job security. The high level of public infrastructure and low cost of living (compared to US coastal cities, even Tokyo is cheap) means that your dollar (or yen) goes much further than in NYC or the Bay Area. Overall it's not too bad a deal…

Isn't the work culture pretty bad, though?

Hours are long and the commutes are (often) long. Culture is hierarchical and often seniority based. Groupthink, consensus, backroom deal making (rather than open argumentation which is the norm in the states), and not rocking the boat are priorities.

But you're basically never going to be fired and generally speaking companies do genuinely seek to "take care of" their people in ways that US companies no longer do (but used to, many decades ago). It's a highly frustrating environment for a restless high performer, but for the mediocre college grad I don't think it's a bad deal at all.

They grew up there, know the culture, and have been trained/educated to navigate its waters.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#173

Post by calvinbhai »

I may be an exception and my experience may be anecdotal, but as someone on an H1-B I think I'm seeing this as a good change. My immigrant peers working at consultancies are seeing more RFEs, and those I know to be working as direct employees are not (as often compared to consultant employees). But there's been a net increase in site visits and verifications along with RFEs to even legit applicants.

For those who dont know the process here's how and when one can get an RFE:

1) Missed a key point in the application or Immigration attorney goofed up (this happens way often)

2) Position doesn't look like it needs a high skilled engineer with skills mentioned in application

3) Grossly underpaying the H1b employee

Getting an RFE by itself is not the nightmare scenario. Its a problem if the employer is doing things using shady loopholes.

What needs to be seen is by what %age RFEs have increased at companies like Apple, Facebook, Intel, Google etc. The bigger companies use boutique immigration law firms and its rare but not impossible for them to mess up on the immigration application process.

I'm not sure what has Trump's administration done to reform the H1b system, its still as crappy as it has been. If anything certain employers were abusing the loopholes. Now its going to get tougher to abuse the loopholes.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#174

Post by Terr_ »

gozur88 wrote: post #103
ashleyn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paleoconservatism/populism isn't concerned about the economic benefits of immigration; it's concerned about "protecting" culture so that immigrants don't have the opportunity to reshape it in any capacity. A sizeable portion of Trump's base believes that they are in danger of becoming a minority in "their own" country and will sidestep the economic benefits of immigration to retain a demographic majority. To these vo…

>A sizeable portion of Trump's base believes that they are in danger of becoming a minority in "their own" country... Why did you put scare quotes around "their own"? Is it not their own country? Culture changes over time no matter what you do, but is it completely unreasonable to want your culture to change slowly enough that you can still function in your dotage?

> Why did you put scare quotes around "their own"? Is it not their own country?

I think the quotes are to suggest that those voters habitually overestimate their share of ownership, compared to everyone else in the country.

For clearer and not-political example, consider the average cat and "their house". It is true that they are a legitimate and valued member of the household... But the quotes suggest something about the way the cat sees the world.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#175

Post by damnyou »

happyrock wrote: post #165
damnyou wrote: post #40

Ah yes, gotta love H-1B threads. The latent nativism among the Hacker News crowd is laid bare. Here's a radical proposal: give anyone with a clean criminal record and a job offer a green card. No limits, no $100k minimum wage, no protectionism. If you, with all the advantages that natives get (networks, language, NETWORKS), can be beat by an immigrant with zero social connections, you probably are worth less than you…

What exactly is the point of a having a country at all, if not to accrue unfair advantages to its citizens? And I assume you have a problem with all other countries unfairly "opportunity hoarding" for their own people too, not just the US?

> What exactly is the point of a having a country at all, if not to accrue unfair advantages to its citizens?

"What exactly is the point of having the white race at all, if not to accrue unfair advantages to its members?"

Countries should effectively be large organizations competing for people based on tax rates, laws, efficiency, and productivity.

> And I assume you have a problem with all other countries unfairly "opportunity hoarding" for their own people too, not just the US?

Obviously. But this is not a Nash equilibrium. Even unilaterally opening up your borders will result in better Pareto outcomes.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#176

Post by protomyth »

damnyou wrote: post #89
einfach wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The employer, before petitioning for H-1B status for any alien worker pursuant to an H-1B LCA, took good faith steps to recruit U.S. workers for the job for which the alien worker is sought, at wages at least equal to those offered to the H-1B worker. Also, the employer will offer the job to any U.S. worker who applies and is equally or better qualified than the H-1B worker. This attestation does not apply if the H…

That rule only applies to H-1B dependent companies and wilful violators. It is not part of the "stated purpose" of the visa.

The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#177

Post by [deleted] »

Spooky23 wrote: post #145
komali2 wrote: post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

There’s a lot of alternate reality with work visas, and many, if not the majority of the positions are there because of cost, not skill. The process should be onerous enough that the body shop business that places cheap candidates with marginal skills shouldn’t be a good business, but not too onerous for the high talent individuals for whom it is intended for.

[deleted]

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#178

Post by jmspring »

Terr_ wrote: post #64
jmspring wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't even sound particularly fluffed up. Most new grads that took a database course would probably fit that description. There are plenty of people qualified around.

The way I read it, stuff like "knows multiple programming languages" is intended to sound impressive to readers who don't know any. I'm just assuming that somebody in the chain that produced this article deliberately sought to make the job sound more selective and prestigious than it really is.

Yeah, I figured that was the intention. But, ugh.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#179

Post by andonisus »

rrhd wrote: post #129
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #49

> Centro had applied for visas for three young employees > He’d received a letter from USCIS saying it would reject his application unless Centro proved the position required someone with specialized skills > The position — which consisted of writing algorithms and required knowledge of multiple programming languages as well as a solid understanding of relational data storage systems — wasn’t a borderline case. I'm g…

Why shouldn't they do that? If I have a bunch of people to keep them on track then hiring the cheapest workers who can do the job sounds like good business.

Because we would like our country to prefer our own citizens for such jobs, when possible.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#180

Post by fggdsgsg »

rrhd wrote: post #100
chefandy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"will not adversely affect the working conditions of workers similarly employed" Seriously. Who in the world would consider being fired and replaced with cheap labor an adverse effect?

Yeah, but I don't think anyone argues that type of behavior isn't blatant abuse of the program. It's frustrating when people complain about H-1Bs at big companies like Google/MS/Amazon. Apparently we're underpaid, overworked, and stealing a job from an american. Despite the fact that these companies are almost constantly hiring and if the american wants to go try, they could.

If we weren't around, an American could demand a (significantly) higher wage. If the developer wages were higher an American programer would consider not becoming a manager (why code away for peanuts when you can boss others for much more?).

That's in the short term. In the long term more Americans would do CS, and if the supply is tight enough, Apple and the others would open schools to train teenagers to code.

Not saying that the current system isn't better. But the basic forces are what they are.

Btw, you are underpaid and overworked. The game-room is gaming you to stay at work longer hours.

Post reply on HN