Live data from Hacker News

USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

bloomberg.com

21–30 of 429 posts

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#21
One of the strangest things with visas is that the agency that authorizes a person to work (DHS/USCIS) is different and has different objectives from the agency that issues the actual visas (DoS). With a valid USCIS work authorization a person already in the US can continue working legally, but the moment they step out of the country they need to apply for a visa with a US consulate (DHS). Applying for a visa with the DHS can take less than a week or more than 6 weeks (despite having all the correct documents). With the people I've spoken to, this causes a great deal of anxiety when travelling internationally.

TL;DR: A work authorization document issued by one agency allows a person to maintain legal presence in the US. This is different from a visa -- a visa allows one to enter the country and is issued by another agency. The visa doesn't clearly specify what one can and cannot do while in the country.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#22

Even though Silicon Valley sees the H-1B program as one of its top political priorities, this campaign of reform by red tape has avoided the frantic political fights surrounding other aspects of immigration, like the proposed travel ban or the cancellation of DACA, a program for those who came to the country as undocumented children. This is conflating two different things - DACA and travel ban are issues related to…

> H-1B is about temporary guest workers.

The H-1B is not about guest workers, which are an altogther separate set of programs/visas. The H-1B is a dual-intent visa, so it supports both people who intend to obtain a green card or citizenship eventually as well as people who only intend to work in the US for a period of time before returning home. (Even in the latter case, this doesn't qualify it as a guest worker program, which is a third category altogether).

An easy heuristic you can use to remember why the H-1B visa isn't a guest worker program is that many people who obtain H-1B visas enter the country without any plan for the date that they will return home. (Whether or not they ultimately stay and immigrate is a separate matter, but guest workers by definition know their expected departure date when they enter, because the terms of their employment and entry are inherently temporary.)

Some critics of the H-1B visa refer to it as a guest worker program, in an attempt to conflate it pejoratively with the latter (which are generally for low-skilled labor, and therefore viewed less favorably than specialty visas like the H-1B).

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#23
> Aegis applied for a half-dozen visas this spring, and only one of them made it through the lottery. The year before, Aegis secured a visa for someone filing a type of job he’s filled with H-1B workers in the past. So Narayanan set up a client project for the prospective new employee, a woman who was living in Dehli, India, at the time.

Sounds like they are exactly the type of consulting firm the administration is attempting to crack down on.

> USCIS challenged the application in August, which irked Narayanan because he had provided everything the agency had asked for. Narayanan was doubly annoyed because, without someone else to handle the new contract, it fell to him directly. For the last month, Narayanan has been spending four or five hours each morning doing the work himself, forgoing his own primary responsibility, which is to bring in new clients. “We might not make the profit we were expecting because of these issues,” he said. “We are afraid of on-boarding new H-1B employees, because of the unknown world.”

My heart weeps for him. If he could do the work himself, is it really so specialized he required H1B for it? Or was it more he just didn't want to pay the local rates?

That said, having hired through the H1B program I sure hope it remains viable. Reforms based on salary instead of lottery seem like a good compromise, reducing outsourcing and low salaries endemic with H1B mills. I'd much prefer a floating high salary floor (say top 25%) and uncapping H1B entirely.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#24

This program was abused badly by US and Indian companies and put a number of engineers in subservient position. I will not shed a tear for those companies. For people, we should have one clear policy and apply it, if they can't come, so be it, but tell them clearly what they can get and what they cannot. And allow some transparency of the income and rates so that it can't be abused as much.

This is absolutely correct. I don't understand this mess of an immigration system, where first you have to lie to visa officers saying that you are using the F1 visa only to study, and you will definitely go back to your home country, then get a dual intent H1B, with a near infinite green card wait.

Set clear standards and expectations. I know that for a lot of people stuck in green card queues, Canada is looking mighty attractive right now. Instant PR.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#25

"It would reject his application unless Centro proved the position required someone with specialized skills. Clark was surprised. She’d been helping people apply for visas for four years, and this was the first time she’d ever seen such a letter." Four years, and this is the first time she's seen the government even try to see if the law should be enforced. Really says it all.

Centro shouldn't need to import people, what they do can be easily found in Chicago, but they would rather not pay good wage it seems.

This is really the central issue.

The H-1B program hasn't ever been a way to get solid talent from other countries to come to the United States because equivalent talent can't be found here. It's ALWAYS been a way to expand the pool of cheap technology labor so that companies dependent on expensive skills can grow faster.

Economics is economics. Companies have an incentive to fight wage inflation when they experience it due to a reliance on high-skill individuals.

I remember going to the offices of a well-known bank and finding nearly the entire development staff comprised of foreign workers on H-1B. Most of them were from India.

That can't be an accident and it's certainly not an indicator that talent is in short supply. What's in short supply is CHEAP TALENT. H-1B workers are cheap and don't have any ability to complain about their working conditions because they can't move to another company as easily as a permanent resident can. That alone is worth the legal hassle a company assumes when bringing in these workers.

SO, word to the wise....make sure you stay one step ahead of the skill levels of the Indian outsourcing companies or your days are numbered.

In the meantime, support candidates that are willing to rein in this amazing abuse of our immigration policy.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#26
post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

Views on immigration (and globalization) don't really align with the left-right political axis in the US.

Zero sum thinking and all that.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#27
post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

>clean the water he drank for 24 years,

I mean, arguably neither did the Chinese, depending on where you are and how much they've let pollution occur in that area.

I think you are grossly overestimating both the value of these immigrants (it isn't hard to see how much garbage science gets published abroad and how useless a good chunk of international students are) and the entire mechanism for technological improvement and innovation (most of which is market, not PhD, driven).

You also don't cite any sources for your claims; this information would be helpful to anybody seeking to agree or argue with you.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#28
post #16

Even though Silicon Valley sees the H-1B program as one of its top political priorities, this campaign of reform by red tape has avoided the frantic political fights surrounding other aspects of immigration, like the proposed travel ban or the cancellation of DACA, a program for those who came to the country as undocumented children. This is conflating two different things - DACA and travel ban are issues related to…

Given the H1-B is a "Dual Intent" visa, it is absolutely still about immigration, the H1-B doesn't just allow for temporary workers. It provides a well worn path to a green card and permanent residency in the US too, and in my experience virtually everyone I've known to use the H1-B has done so. The H1-B cap is surely a far more pressing concern for most technology firms than the GC backlog. The H1-B cap and delays a…

I think the parent poster's point is that the H1B process is far from the bottleneck there, for shops intending to bring along their foreign workers rather than churn through cheap employees, which matches my experience.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#29
post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

The demand for locally trained highly trained people is stifled by the easy access to highly trained people trained by someone else. Reducing the influx of highly skilled immigrants may have the virtuous effect of increasing the demand for local high quality education, which may, in the long term, reduce the the education gap between US and China / Taiwan / Japan / Germany.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#30
post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

The stated purpose of the H1-B program is to allow companies to fill vacancies with international applicants if they are unable to find US employees qualified for the roles. I've never heard any sane, rational person object to this use case.

The issue most people have is that the program seems to be rampantly abused. Companies are replacing US workers with H1-B's sourced from companies like Tata and Infosys at much lower salaries than US employees would normally command. In some cases, they're just bringing in foreign workers for the time it takes to train them, then having them work remotely and paying them even less still.

Disney even made their US employees train their replacements before laying them off: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff...

Southern California Edison was another company that did the same: https://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/it-outsourcing...

It's this type of abuse where US companies are simply looking to fire US citizens so they can pay slave wages to foreign contractors for the same work that people are up in arms about.

Post reply on HN