Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#61

Post by CamperBob » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 10:40 PM UTC

contextfree wrote: post #57

shortformblog wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their history with Windows is not an advantage if the design of it is cumbersome and full of compromises. Which, more than anything, is what the point of the article is getting at. Microsoft has had a decade of chances in this market to pull off the "business tablet" market you're suggesting. And, well, they just haven't done it yet. If this is such a competitive advantage, why wasn't the iPad put on a Mac OSX archit…

You could have made the same argument in 1989 about MSFT attempting to graft a GUI on top of the PC and DOS, though. They tried it a couple times with Windows 1 and 2 and largely failed, meanwhile Apple made a fresh start with the Mac and has been exciting everyone for five years, clearly MSFT's approach is inherently doomed to failure and they should either develop a brand-new HW/SW system from scratch or give up on…

That's a really important point, I think. Looking back over the past 25 years, what has Apple consistently done better than any other technology company? Snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. What has Microsoft consistently done? Just as you say, they consistently deliver a couple of turkey drops, and then start to get it right in version 3.

It's not clear what "version 3" of MS's tablet strategy really is, or whether their product-development effort has reached that level yet. But if history is any guide, we'll know it when they ship it. Most likely, it will happen around the same time that Apple's proprietary, grasping nature starts to become self-defeating.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#62

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 10:49 PM UTC

berntb wrote: post #19

rbanffy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know either why it stopped working. They no longer can use one monopoly to create another. That's what landed them in trouble in the US and in the EU. Their historical model of growth is no longer possible. I would suspect they rely too much on focus groups to drive product development. There is only so much consumers can tell you about what they need. You can't just round up a bunch of consumers and ask th…

>>They no longer can use one monopoly to create another. I tried to write that in the paragraph starting with: " Could the problem be a lack of a monopoly leverage? ". :-) >>That's what landed them in trouble in the US and in the EU. I wonder if that is the reason. They kept ignoring the monopoly laws and paid fines ten years later, when they courts had managed to get to the (then ancient) transgression. >>I would su…

Yes. You pretty much nailed it.

I believe top management really wants to completely ignore the law and employ every subcriminal tactic available in the books and, perhaps, write a couple new ones in the process. I also believe they don't have the guts this would take, as they believe that their past transgressions brought attention enough for someone to end in jail.

That and the lack of balls to design products no focus group wants, but build them because you know people will want them once they see them.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#63

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 10:53 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #50

Herring wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're probably getting way too much money to risk killing windows. The last thing they want is a viable alternative.

The last thing they want is a viable alternative. A viable alternative made and sold by ... Microsoft? This wouldn't be taking away from Windows, it would be designing and selling the right tool for the job.

OTOH, they are too scared to do it and create incentives for people to migrate away from Windows. Even if most of them move to another Microsoft offering, they don't seem to want risking it.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#64

Post by mishmash » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 10:57 PM UTC

sprout wrote: post #59

mishmash wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, but subscription-based music services had been around for five+ years before the Zune came out - and even so, all iTunes evidence pointed to a trend that users wanted to own their music. And the beaming feature may have been nice in theory, it was widely considered to be hobbled with DRM. Lastly, let's not forget the seemingly inane decision to bypass what little music people had from PlaysForSure c…

>They made consumers re-purchase music How many people actually bought PlaysForSure music? I don't really see how that's a huge deal. You could still use all of your existing MP3s, DRM-free AAC music from iTunes, and WMA files from Windows. >it was widely considered to be hobbled with DRM. Here I definitely think that's the anti-Microsoft spin machine at work. The problem with the beaming feature is that no one owned…

>> it's reported that the entire iPod development process ... only took 18 months

> Pro-Apple spin machine at work.

WikiPedia reports 12 months of development for the iPod. IIRC I read the 18 month figure in Leander Kahney's Inside Steve's Brain but can't seem to find it now.

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Steves-Brain-Leander-Kahney/dp/...

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#65

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 11:17 PM UTC

j053003 wrote: post #5

jsz0 wrote: post #3

The best thing Microsoft could do at this point is put together a Metro style touch-centric UI that is the default for Windows tablets. Give developers a quick & dirty way to port their existing applications to a touch-centric UI. It wouldn't be the most elegant solution but it would be closer to what people seem to want in a tablet.

Personally, I hope it looks like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIPjJElVx0U One can dream, right?

I'd be happy with something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPDT21oEhW0

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#66

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 11:19 PM UTC

commandar wrote: post #43

fuzzythinker wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet they would, but most likely a tiny feature from it a bit at a time. I'll say they canceled it not because they didn't like it, but because it would take too long to finish. They felt Apple would have too much head start if they didn't produce _anything_ in the mean time. This rush is pretty much confirmed by their actions and this interview.

>I bet they would I kind of doubt it given J Allard was forced out of the company over the Courier.[1] Frankly, I think that's one of the single most boneheaded moves Ballmer's made -- Allard is largely responsible for reviving Microsoft's brand image with the under 30 crowd heading up Xbox and Zune development. A decade ago, nobody would have described Microsoft as a cool brand, but flash forward today every frat bo…

> A decade ago, nobody would have described Microsoft as a cool brand

I am not sure many people describe it that way now.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#67

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 11:39 PM UTC

jim_h wrote: post #2

Microsoft should bring life back to the Courier. I'd buy that.

I would prefer Apple's Knowledge Navigator (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5144094928842683632...) or a Sun Starfire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKJNxgZyVo0). Product for product, they are as real as the Courier.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#68

Post by extension » Sun, Aug 01, 2010, 3:17 AM UTC

TotlolRon wrote: post #31

extension wrote: post #28

The iPad is not a computer. The iPad is not a computer. Say it with me, Microsoft. Join in, half the tech industry. Nobody framed it better than Apple themselves at the iPad launch. On the big screen was an iPhone, a MacBook, and in between them, an iPad. Steve called it a new category, and that wasn't just marketing speak. It really is a new kind of gadget, designed to make you do things that you previously did not…

The iPad IS a computer. It is at the time when the definition of a word changes that the greatest oppertunities present themselves. There is no iPad market, there is no tablet market - there is a computer market. This is what MS is up against... [Sent from my iPod touch]

We're going to need a new word because I don't think the computer is going anywhere, and neither does Apple.

I think Steve was spot on with his car vs truck analogy: the iPad will be like a car, which everyone will have, and the computer will be like a truck, which people only have for special purposes.

That's what computers used to be anyway, and I think it will be fantastic to have them back in their niche again, instead of trying to please everyone.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#69

Post by commandar » Sun, Aug 01, 2010, 6:47 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #66

commandar wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I bet they would I kind of doubt it given J Allard was forced out of the company over the Courier.[1] Frankly, I think that's one of the single most boneheaded moves Ballmer's made -- Allard is largely responsible for reviving Microsoft's brand image with the under 30 crowd heading up Xbox and Zune development. A decade ago, nobody would have described Microsoft as a cool brand, but flash forward today every frat bo…

> A decade ago, nobody would have described Microsoft as a cool brand I am not sure many people describe it that way now.

Then rephrase it as how many "cool" products existed under the Microsoft brand.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#70

Post by rbanffy » Sun, Aug 01, 2010, 12:37 PM UTC

commandar wrote: post #69

rbanffy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A decade ago, nobody would have described Microsoft as a cool brand I am not sure many people describe it that way now.

Then rephrase it as how many "cool" products existed under the Microsoft brand.

Cool as in "geek cool" or as in "general cool"? As in "geek cool", there were many. Even Windows for Workgroups was cool because it offered Mac-like networking for PCs. MS Access was cool. Even VB was cool (before it a Windows hello world was 100+ lines). My Softcard was cool - it allowed my Apple II to run CP/M programs. Microsoft's mice, keyboards and joysticks were always top-notch.

As in "general cool", I can't remember a single one. Perhaps the Xbox 360 makes the cut, but only in the 25+ gamer scene.

There would also be some "fashion-victim cool": those who just need the latest shiny toy. Those were the ones who jumped into Vista, Office 2007 and then to 7 and 2010 just because there is a newer version, disregarding whatever feature they needed. Obviously, they are not restricted to the Microsoft space - and I have pushed my PPC iMac well beyond its last supported OSX version (the G3 runs 10.4, but is not very snappy). These people also swap hardware like crazy, often having 8-core, 64-bit desktops where they check their hotmail accounts and zip through Facebook at speeds unheard of.