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Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

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Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#31

Post by jgh »

zaarn wrote: post #4

The core point of the entire thread can be summed up by one of the tweets; "I believe well designed keyboard interfaces and well designed GUI interfaces have exactly the same learning curve." I agree with this. A properly and well designed keyboard interface is faster than any mouse. On the other hand, a properly designed mouse interface can be fast too. Both need to be applied when it makes sense. I can also resonat…

IMO Google Maps became completely awful when they made that new version of it, and they've been doing everything in their power to continue making it worse. Sure the scrolling is a lot smoother, but it's missing just a ton of features that the old version had. Plus the problems mentioned in the tweet storm, everything disappearing as soon as you change one item. PLUS that stupid side-bar that takes up half the screen now.

Edit: Here's another good one I just ran into -- I can't sign out of just one Gmail account. I have to sign out of all my Gmail accounts, and sign back into the ones I didn't intend to sign out of.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#32

Post by coffeevradar »

knieveltech wrote: post #14
fallingfrog wrote: post #3

This! I once took over programming a point of sale system that our (internal to the company) users were complaining about. Turns out there was no concept of tab sequence, you had to use the mouse for everything. I asked the previous programmer to show me how to use the form he created, and he started typing a phone number using the top row of the keyboard instead of the numpad. But hey, it had lots of javascript!

For those of us that have been fortunate enough to avoid having a job that involved an adding machine or cash register the number pad is an awkward AF to use. Conversely the top keyboard row is in range for touch typing.

People that do any kind of data entry or work in finance learn to use it too. The number pad is not just for cashiers.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#33

Post by StavrosK »

inetknght wrote: post #11
cpburns2009 wrote: post #8

I certainly agree. The one case where this isn't necessarily true is a fresh boot. Granted, my reference point starts from the 90s, and that's assuming you're booting from an HDD (not an SSD, flash, or restoring cached state from quick/fast boot).

I disagree with that. Even spinning HDDs are several orders of magnitude faster than even the main RAM of computers from 20 years ago.

RAM from computers from 20 years ago had seek times of milliseconds? I find that very hard to believe.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#34

Post by nevir »

mwcampbell wrote: post #12
fallingfrog wrote: post #3

This! I once took over programming a point of sale system that our (internal to the company) users were complaining about. Turns out there was no concept of tab sequence, you had to use the mouse for everything. I asked the previous programmer to show me how to use the form he created, and he started typing a phone number using the top row of the keyboard instead of the numpad. But hey, it had lots of javascript!

I don't get your point about typing phone numbers. When I was being taught to touch-type in first and second grade, my teachers told me that I should type on the top row, not the numeric keypad. Not sure why. Maybe because it takes less time to move to the top row and back? Anyway, to me, typing numbers on the top row is not an obvious problem.

The numpad is a considerably faster input method, and it can be performed one handed. For a point of sale system, this is critical: the clerk can juggle an item while typing the phone number (or price, or whatever)

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#35

Post by xnzakg »

kgwxd wrote: post #21
ambrosite wrote: post #15

I wonder how much of this is a result of UI designers deliberately putting tiny delays/animations into their UIs to make them more "usable"? For example, it was a common piece of advice that if clicking a button opens up a dialog box, there should be a brief animation showing the box expanding from the direction of the button, so the user would associate the clicking of the button with the appearance of the box and u…

Just last week I discovered I could disable animations in Android through the hidden developer options. It's fabulous. The only initial quirk was no visual feedback when a picture is successfully taken, so it felt like i missed the button, but I've gotten used to it already.

You can also speed them up a bit. Makes the phone seem a lot snappier without breaking apps that seem to rely on animations for timing (I'm looking at you, messenger's "share" feature which doesn't have a send delay if you disable animations)

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#36

Post by nevir »

ambrosite wrote: post #24
fallingfrog wrote: post #3

This! I once took over programming a point of sale system that our (internal to the company) users were complaining about. Turns out there was no concept of tab sequence, you had to use the mouse for everything. I asked the previous programmer to show me how to use the form he created, and he started typing a phone number using the top row of the keyboard instead of the numpad. But hey, it had lots of javascript!

I've always found it easier to type long strings of numbers on the number pad. I don't know why, it's not as though I ever deliberately trained myself to use it, but for me the number pad is much faster than using the top row.

Your fingers don't have as far to travel, and there's no seeking involved (hand doesn't move)

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#37

Post by protomyth »

mwcampbell wrote: post #12
fallingfrog wrote: post #3

This! I once took over programming a point of sale system that our (internal to the company) users were complaining about. Turns out there was no concept of tab sequence, you had to use the mouse for everything. I asked the previous programmer to show me how to use the form he created, and he started typing a phone number using the top row of the keyboard instead of the numpad. But hey, it had lots of javascript!

I don't get your point about typing phone numbers. When I was being taught to touch-type in first and second grade, my teachers told me that I should type on the top row, not the numeric keypad. Not sure why. Maybe because it takes less time to move to the top row and back? Anyway, to me, typing numbers on the top row is not an obvious problem.

Because most accountant and office types will use the numeric keypad and go blazing fast. That’s probably one reasons for the complaints. God help any PC tech who screws up their settings and doesn’t enable num-lock at boot.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#38

Post by Declanomous »

kgwxd wrote: post #21
ambrosite wrote: post #15

I wonder how much of this is a result of UI designers deliberately putting tiny delays/animations into their UIs to make them more "usable"? For example, it was a common piece of advice that if clicking a button opens up a dialog box, there should be a brief animation showing the box expanding from the direction of the button, so the user would associate the clicking of the button with the appearance of the box and u…

Just last week I discovered I could disable animations in Android through the hidden developer options. It's fabulous. The only initial quirk was no visual feedback when a picture is successfully taken, so it felt like i missed the button, but I've gotten used to it already.

Another bonus is how much longer your battery lasts without animations. I'm pretty sure battery saver just turns off tactile response, and disables animations for the most part (in addition to changing the gps update speed if you are using location services)

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#39

Post by fusiongyro »

In the name of usability, we have practically neutered these computing machines. I think optimizing for user experience is partly to blame for this. You don't want users to have a confusing experience the first time they use the application, and you want the application to look good and be inviting. But that may be at cross purposes with making applications that allow open-ended exploration. Exploration implies that the user is driving the process, which suggests that the UI is not actively trying to constrain them to the usage patterns it is designed for.

I think pretty much everything in computing is like this. By setting our sights on enabling users rather than training operators, we have not only limited what they are able to do, we have actually turned ourselves into users, and we're basically unable to program without the help of frameworks, libraries and Stack Overflow.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983

#40

Post by davidgay »

inetknght wrote: post #11
cpburns2009 wrote: post #8

I certainly agree. The one case where this isn't necessarily true is a fresh boot. Granted, my reference point starts from the 90s, and that's assuming you're booting from an HDD (not an SSD, flash, or restoring cached state from quick/fast boot).

I disagree with that. Even spinning HDDs are several orders of magnitude faster than even the main RAM of computers from 20 years ago.

Not in latency, by a very long stretch (500ns 30 years ago).
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