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Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#241

Post by humanrebar »

refurb wrote: post #203
clairity wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And their money is just as good for hiring programmers and renting servers as anyone else's. maybe you didn't mean it this way, but i was struck by the nonchalance of this statement, as if being able to spend money justifies taking the investment. and i presume that's exactly why the article was written, to question that kind of stance. now i love tech, and will defend our ability to progress and advance and make n…

Whose morals? Yours? Mine? It's not easy to get people to agree on what is moral beyond things like murder.

Well, mine, clearly. Any discussion to the contrary is dangerous and should be silenced. Or at least be done in private away from everyone else.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#242

Post by kakarot »

dogma1138 wrote: post #215
kakarot wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took that as people need to be a little more honest and accept that those slogans are lies and bullshit. This kind of attitude is exactly the problem. Sure, they are for profit, but since when is that the only thing that matters? I would never knowingly take blood money from a dictator, even if it meant I lived an impoverished life. If the company I worked for took such money, I would begin looking for alternate em…

Which company you work for I’ll give you a reason to quit in 5 minutes.

I work for a small startup which has taken no such money. My career is aligned with my ethical principles.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#243

Post by humanrebar »

charlesdm wrote: post #237
clairity wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And their money is just as good for hiring programmers and renting servers as anyone else's. maybe you didn't mean it this way, but i was struck by the nonchalance of this statement, as if being able to spend money justifies taking the investment. and i presume that's exactly why the article was written, to question that kind of stance. now i love tech, and will defend our ability to progress and advance and make n…

Some people just don't care where the money comes from, and just want to put together the best deal. If a US investor offers you $50m for 10% of your company, and a Saudi investor offers you $100m for 10% of your company -- which one would you take?

What if the US investor is Harvey Weinstein and you've just found out he's a terrible person? Are you obligated to go find other investors at (presumably) worse terms and buy him out?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#244

Post by Chris2048 »

kakarot wrote: post #86
Barrin92 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yep kind of confused to. The silicon valley is a for-profit sector, when they write "diversity, inclusiveness, fairness" and so forth on their banners they are very much qualifying this within a business context. People need to be a little more honest and accept that those slogans are marketing messages, nobody in the valley is seriously going to turn an investment away for moral reasons

I took that as people need to be a little more honest and accept that those slogans are lies and bullshit. This kind of attitude is exactly the problem. Sure, they are for profit, but since when is that the only thing that matters? I would never knowingly take blood money from a dictator, even if it meant I lived an impoverished life. If the company I worked for took such money, I would begin looking for alternate em…

> why do we let this happen in a country that boasts about its commitment to democracy and human rights?

Because talk is cheap, but comfortable lies work.

The case can easily be made that part of the American rise to power was basically war profiteering.

Even Russia enjoys whataboutism wrt to American morality...

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#245

Post by humanrebar »

jernfrost wrote: post #219
PeachPlum wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you show me the list of President Trump's human rights abuses ?

Fortunatly for the US there are checks and balances hindering Trump from doing most of the evil he wants to. Don’t be naive and think he would be nice if he had dictatorial powers. He has already publicly complained that he can’t use the FBI for whatever he wants to, like going after his political opponents.

So doesn't the U.S. get some credit in the don't-be-evil Olympics for having such a system in place?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#246

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

prestonpesek wrote: post #131

Maybe we should ask how human rights abuses plan to persist if their proponents are funding new platforms of self expression and better flows of information that offer tremendous empowerment for the average person to learn about and speak out against such injustices. This seems a poor strategy if the goal is to keep the people ignorant and subject to the ancient stupidity of religious dogma.

I daresay you are a few years behind. Social networking hasn’t proven to be quite the platform for self-expression and resistance to oppression that it may have seemed a decade ago. A number of authoritarian states now have deep social network penetration, but they have managed to neuter political criticism. Requiring that one use one's real name and identifiable details (like a mobile phone number; in many countries you have to show your ID to buy a SIM card) helps ensure an atmosphere of self-censorship, where people don’t air strident views too much because they worry about the consequences.

> the goal is to keep the people ignorant and subject to the ancient stupidity of religious dogma

The present wave of fundamentalist Orthodoxy in Russia (demanding a ban on screenings of the film Mathilda, attacking other arts figures or those who would try to shield property from Church repossession, etc.) is actually mobilized in large part through social-networking platforms.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#247

Post by mariushn »

clairity wrote: post #153
harryh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same answer: simple avarice. There is a lot of Saudi money and they are willing to invest it. And their money is just as good for hiring programmers and renting servers as anyone else's.

> And their money is just as good for hiring programmers and renting servers as anyone else's. maybe you didn't mean it this way, but i was struck by the nonchalance of this statement, as if being able to spend money justifies taking the investment. and i presume that's exactly why the article was written, to question that kind of stance. now i love tech, and will defend our ability to progress and advance and make n…

Nice words, but unfortunately money is all that matters at end of the day.

If most people had the same philosophy you described, USA would have stopped ALL oil imports after 9/11, and start massive investments in electric vehicles and public transportation right then.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#248

Post by jochung »

jernfrost wrote: post #219
PeachPlum wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you show me the list of President Trump's human rights abuses ?

Fortunatly for the US there are checks and balances hindering Trump from doing most of the evil he wants to. Don’t be naive and think he would be nice if he had dictatorial powers. He has already publicly complained that he can’t use the FBI for whatever he wants to, like going after his political opponents.

Just imagine if the US had secret prisons, policies of torture, autonomous killing machines, an unaccountable surveillance apparatus, and worst of all, a government that outright lied about some of these things without consequence during a presidency awarded a Nobel Peace prize.

amirite

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#249

Post by ataturk »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #227
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly can't tell if you're being ironic, or claiming that two wrongs make a right.

I think they have the correct understanding of the is/ought dichotomy. You absolutely shouldn't get a free pass from morality. It doesn't change the fact that, most of the time, you absolutely do. To the list of examples of people getting a free pass from morality, I'd add the entire advertising industry, and quite a lot of stuff done in journalism. And many small business owners.

Whose morality are we talking about here? The hand-chopping, terror funding Saudi morality? Or the Puritanical, still allied with the British Empire Northeast US morality? Or the US West-Coast "if it feels good do it more" anything-goes morality?

Or did you mean ethics?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#250

Post by dogma1138 »

kakarot wrote: post #242
dogma1138 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which company you work for I’ll give you a reason to quit in 5 minutes.

I work for a small startup which has taken no such money. My career is aligned with my ethical principles.

I really doubt it, not your virtue signaling but the fact that you think your money is even remotely clean. Did you take money from a VC?

Heck did you take money from a Bank? Would you surprise you to know that virtually every bank actively launders money for drug lords, terrorists and every other sort of undesirables?

Money by definition isn’t clean, Saudi Arabia, UAE and the likes have one of the largest investment funds in the world you can’t withdraw a dollar from a bank without touching that money.

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