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Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#191

Post by sho »

oculusthrift wrote: post #163
sho wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of agree with you, but I think you muddy your argument by getting into the weeds somewhat. For me this whole thing is pretty simple - where do you draw your line? I mean, off the top of my head here's a rough list, in my extremely rough estimation, of human rights offenders from bad to good: badness country 100% DPRK 90% Saudi Arabia 80% Dubai 70% Russia 60% China 50% USA 40% India 30% Japan 20% Australia 10%…

australia, with its migrant crisis is somehow better than japan?

It's a very approximate list! But since you mention it.. the migrant issue is an outlier I think. It's shameful, but an outlier (I'm Australian btw). Generally we mostly do a decent job. Manus Island makes my blood boil, but we've spent billions trying to stop the solomon islanders killing each other too (RAMSI). The aboriginal health crisis is actually worse IMO, not that it's in the news.

I put Japan there because of its more or less systematic discrimination against people of korean ancestry, lack of support for the economically disadvantaged (eg. freeters, NEET), generally outdated attitudes to women and of course their 99% conviction rate criminal justice system. But honestly, you could make a case either way. Japan's not a bad country in aggregate.

I had to think of something!

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#192

Post by prestonpesek »

If humanity wants to improve the net balance of human rights, what better way than to reallocate available financial capital away from regimes that subscribe to undesirable religious dogma, and toward a new generation of leaders who believe in progress through the erosion of ignorance, by creating platforms of empowerment and enlightenment by means of a freer flow of information, via digital channels that transcend obsolete political and cultural borders. If the Saudi agenda is to propagate Islam, then the internet is a terrible thing to invest in.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#193

Post by PeachPlum »

pryce wrote: post #156
manfredo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do we make countries high up on that list go down? Economic isolationism surely isn't the answer - seeing as North Korea is #1 on that list. Notice that the countries lowest on your list of badness have the closest ties to Western countries (with the exception of Antarctica). Saudi Arabia becoming more closely tied economically to Western countries is an opportunity to lessen its "badness" on your scale. Rece…

There is a reason that countries like South Africa would be substantially less high on that list than they used to be 25 years ago, and increasing economic -and political- isolation is definitely one of the reasons it changed. We see in political science that the definition of nations is somewhat circular - for a country to meaningfully exist, its recognition of a significant number of other countries is almost an es…

If we extend our timelines then all of the European nations would go to the top.

Late 19th century unbridled mercantilism killed millions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Victorian_Holocausts

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#194

Post by PeachPlum »

erikb wrote: post #91
gozur88 wrote: post #77

This article is really, really light on reasons why you wouldn't take Saudi money. Is he really suggesting we reject money from a citizen of any country that's been "criticized for its human rights record"? Would there be any money left?

If you did that, you couldn't take US money either. Especially now that we've seen Trump and his friends, does anybody really consider them better than any other powerhungry folks?

Can you show me the list of President Trump's human rights abuses ?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#195

Post by lend000 »

Sensational pseudo-journalism making an issue out of nothing. There will rarely be a company that has the luxury to turn down funding on some misplaced moral high ground. Should we enact an embargo? Sanctions always work, right? Or at least they make the poorest inhabitants of the country suffer (see NK, Cuba, Yemen).

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#196

Post by lostboys67 »

megaman22 wrote: post #5

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

Yes the new crown prince is positioning his country for when the oil runs out - this is no different to how Norway does it.

Is it just me or does the NYC article sound screamly racist

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#197

Post by anad7 »

brighteyes wrote: post #41

There is something to this argument, but it's ruined. The author and many others don't like Saudi Arabia and Russia. That's the main reason for advocating a boycott of their investment money, because while the author mentions the poor human rights records of those two countries as the reason, there are plenty of other countries with such records. The main example of which is China, which is of course not mentioned. T…

We must of-course include Israel in this list, as far as I know it is a serial human rights violator and uses technology for inciting violence and fear.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#198

Post by PhasmaFelis »

hedonistbot wrote: post #174
clairity wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And their money is just as good for hiring programmers and renting servers as anyone else's. maybe you didn't mean it this way, but i was struck by the nonchalance of this statement, as if being able to spend money justifies taking the investment. and i presume that's exactly why the article was written, to question that kind of stance. now i love tech, and will defend our ability to progress and advance and make n…

> but none of us gets a free pass from morality, not even in business What? That's news to me. What about the entire defence industry? What about all the politicians that take a cushy job in the companies they helped during their time in office and who can be directly held accountable by the electorate? And why should anyone question the Saudis when they just signed a multi billion dollar weapon deal with the US gove…

I honestly can't tell if you're being ironic, or claiming that two wrongs make a right.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#199

Post by lostboys67 »

dba7dba wrote: post #90
kakarot wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took that as people need to be a little more honest and accept that those slogans are lies and bullshit. This kind of attitude is exactly the problem. Sure, they are for profit, but since when is that the only thing that matters? I would never knowingly take blood money from a dictator, even if it meant I lived an impoverished life. If the company I worked for took such money, I would begin looking for alternate em…

I guess some people see it troubling that the guardians of human rights of modern world are so willing to take funding from nations that doesn't value such rights. Basically Silicon Valley companies are very vocal about protecting human rights (which is good), and turn around and accept funding from nations that don't value them. And it's not like these SV Companies didn't have any other source of funding.

Not really a lot of SV companies will be selective in which human rights they apply if it doesn't cost them that much

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#200

Post by lostboys67 »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #185
megaman22 wrote: post #5

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

Makes perfect sense to me too. Islam forbids them from charging compound interest, but allows them to seek riches in the shared profits of successful ventures.

Its interest at all which is banned, which is why there are Sharia compliant bank accounts and investments.
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