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Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#141

Post by manfredo »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #11
mabbo wrote: post #8

Because it's a good investment, and Saudi Arabia is desperate to diversify their money before all the oil dries up. Why is this complicated?

The question is not why would the Saudis want to invest, it's why an industry that always talks about how progressive and innovative it is is so happy to compromise those values. This presents a conundrum. Tech companies are fond of pseudo-revolutionary mission statements that extol the virtues of diversity, tolerance, freedom of expression and other progressive ideals. They have argued that their technologies are pa…

Does accepting investments from Saudi Arabia represent a compromise of those values? Are Saudi Arabian investors attempting to limit diversity, tolerance, and freedom of expression?

I fail to see how accepting investments from Saudi Arabia is selling once's soul or compromising on those values. If anything, the fact that Saudi Arabia is diversifying its investments and becoming invested in the economies of Western countries is likely a driving factor of their latest pushes towards more egalitarian (but, relatively speaking, still backward-as-hell) values.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#144

Post by nautilus12 »

Aside from simply diversifying their portfolio are there any prominant deep state theories as to why Saudi Arabia would want to prop up tech? For example, one such theory could be that Apple is being funded by Saudi Arabia to specifically build addictive technologies so the American public is enmeshed in confusing contradictory media sources rendering the US public largely ineffective and allowing them a secret backdoor to collect data on the American public.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#145

Post by conanbatt »

megaman22 wrote: post #5

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

I don't get the reasoning to be against it. If your goal is "global liberation", taking money from oppressive regimes its a pretty darn fast way to do it. You make the oppressors pay for the future liberation. We should applaud if thats whats happening.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#146

Post by bcraven »

nautilus12 wrote: post #144

Aside from simply diversifying their portfolio are there any prominant deep state theories as to why Saudi Arabia would want to prop up tech? For example, one such theory could be that Apple is being funded by Saudi Arabia to specifically build addictive technologies so the American public is enmeshed in confusing contradictory media sources rendering the US public largely ineffective and allowing them a secret backd…

What a hilariously convoluted plan!

Here's an easier one- oil is running out so the Kingdom needs to diversify. Tech provides investment and job opportunities.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#147

Post by manfredo »

sho wrote: post #126
brighteyes wrote: post #41

There is something to this argument, but it's ruined. The author and many others don't like Saudi Arabia and Russia. That's the main reason for advocating a boycott of their investment money, because while the author mentions the poor human rights records of those two countries as the reason, there are plenty of other countries with such records. The main example of which is China, which is of course not mentioned. T…

I kind of agree with you, but I think you muddy your argument by getting into the weeds somewhat. For me this whole thing is pretty simple - where do you draw your line? I mean, off the top of my head here's a rough list, in my extremely rough estimation, of human rights offenders from bad to good: badness country 100% DPRK 90% Saudi Arabia 80% Dubai 70% Russia 60% China 50% USA 40% India 30% Japan 20% Australia 10%…

And how do we make countries high up on that list go down?

Economic isolationism surely isn't the answer - seeing as North Korea is #1 on that list. Notice that the countries lowest on your list of badness have the closest ties to Western countries (with the exception of Antarctica). Saudi Arabia becoming more closely tied economically to Western countries is an opportunity to lessen its "badness" on your scale. Recent developments, like allowing women to drive and encouraging more women to work are still ridiculously backwards by the standards of the Western world, but represent steps in the right direction

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#148

Post by forapurpose »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #134

No, its time to stop pretending that the "tech industry" is some sort of champion of freedom and goodness. There is nothing inherently good about tech or the tech industry. Governed properly, platforms and services like Twitter and Google can be valuable tools in creating and sustaining a free and open society. Nothing about their behavior suggests this is the case. Virtually every tech company has crumbled without m…

More concretely, the tech industry does good if and only if people reading this (and others like them) do good, including by advocating for good to their peers, employers, etc. There is nothing inherently good about the industry, or about you and me.

How to do it is complicated. If people like the Saudis offer money, consider the consequences. Consider your power to say 'no' to the influence they may wish to wield and how much you are legitimizing them by association.

As an example, Chinese censors now influence Hollywood. The Chinese government threatens to deny their market to those who don't cooperate, and so Americans and the world see films that are effectively censored, to a degree, by the Chinese government. For example, in the 1990s Disney made the film Kundun, about the Dalai Lama. China penalized Disney heavily in the domestic market.

In October 1998, [Disney head Michael] Mr. Eisner met Zhu Rongji, who had just been named prime minister, at China’s leadership compound in Beijing. Mr. Eisner apologized for “Kundun,” calling it a “stupid mistake,” according to a transcript of the meeting.

“This film was a form of insult to our friends, but other than journalists, very few people in the world ever saw it,” Mr. Eisner said during the meeting. (“Kundun” bombed, taking in just $5.7 million against a production budget of about $30 million.)

Mr. Eisner said the company had learned a lesson.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/business/international/ch...

Seen many films critical of China lately?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#149

Post by remarkEon »

conanbatt wrote: post #145
megaman22 wrote: post #5

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

I don't get the reasoning to be against it. If your goal is "global liberation", taking money from oppressive regimes its a pretty darn fast way to do it. You make the oppressors pay for the future liberation. We should applaud if thats whats happening.

I think it's naive to think that taking money from oppressive regimes has no other effect than depleting their cash reserves. Google and Facebook seem to have no qualms about acquiescing to Chinese censorship demands. I think it's folly to think Saudi money won't or doesn't have at least some nefarious influence somewhere. It's worth at least taking a look.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#150

Post by ThrustVectoring »

odiroot wrote: post #142

Why now, New York Times? Just after Saudis started to clean their house. What's your point? This article cannot be accidental.

For what it's worth, I don't trust the process of corrupt organizations "cleaning house" in general. The housecleaning could easily be of people with insufficient loyalty.
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