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Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#101

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

erikb wrote: post #89

Honestly, if someone offers you 300 million plus would you say no, because this someone belongs to a different culture group? The discussion as well as the headline of the article seems quite strange. I mean you want a free market or not. If you want, then all these examples should make you proud not worried.

So, not respecting human rights is a cultural difference we should accept?

And if I want free markets, and I notice that free markets lead to people being murdered, then I should be proud when people do get murdered? Otherwise I would necessarily have to reject free markets? Or what exactly is your point?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#103

Post by richardknop »

l33tbro wrote: post #16
diogenescynic wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it isn’t nefarious, maybe we still shouldn’t let them profit off our liberal democracy while they exploit their own citizens, enslave foreigners, fund terrorism, and abuse women. Maybe we shouldn’t let them have their cake and eat it too. Make them pick between human rights and investing in the S&P500.

Well if you want to talk sanctions, I'd say selling them $110 billion in weapons a few months back is slightly more concerning than slamming shut the bank counter screens on them.

Selling weapons to Saudis has been going on for decades, Trump, Obama, Clinton, Bush... all have been selling them weapons for billions of dollars.

It's pretty big hypocrisy of US, on one hand you consider Iran the most evil nation state in the world (or at least ME region) and have been sanctioning them for decades (with slight easing of that approach recently), on the other hand nobody bats an eye for selling weapons to SA and treating them as a great ally and friend.

I never could understand this big glaring hypocrisy from my European point of view. Perhaps it has something to do with politics in US but even then it's hard for me to understand why the one is ally and the other enemy.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#106

Post by rs999gti »

pizza wrote: post #37
l33tbro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if you want to talk sanctions, I'd say selling them $110 billion in weapons a few months back is slightly more concerning than slamming shut the bank counter screens on them.

"Psst.. You wanna see how far the nefariousness goes? Follow the money.., follow the orb... " https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8559731/Ge...

It goes back further than that, all the way back to 1940's and the meeting between FDR and the King of Saud:

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://...

> They eventually came to an agreement that centered around U.S. support and military training for Saudi Arabia, then a fledgling country surrounded by stronger nations, in return for oil and political support in the region.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/27...

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#107

Post by sampo »

erikb wrote: post #95
diogenescynic wrote: post #7

Same reason they invest in Fox News—aim the weapon at your enemy, like Iran. It’s no coincidence the media is always screaming about Iran, who is actually more moderate than our supposed ally Saudi Arabia. It’s a way to buy themselves a free pass from criticism.

Funny how this gets so many downvotes just for saying Iran may be more moderate than Saudi Arabia. If you really compare both countries it's really hard to say who's "better". Both disagree completely with our values. It may improve somewhat under Mohammed. But you know, starting from almost 0% it's really easy to improve and still be far, far away from 100%.

In Iran, the government is more conservative than the populace. In Saudi Arabia, the populace is even more conservative than the government.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#108

Post by richardknop »

This article is quite hypocritical. If you are going to single out Saudi money as immoral or let's say unethical, you have to apply the same meter to all countries. And this isn't just Russia which is currently being sanctioned hard but also notably China or some other ME and African countries.

Now, if you want to know my personal opinion, I am very critical of Saudi Arabia and if Russia and Iran are treated as enemies and sanctioned I think the treatment of SA should be the same.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#110

Post by smsm42 »

tyingq wrote: post #73
smsm42 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the problem is the point where they exploit their own citizens, enslave foreigners, fund terrorism, and abuse women - not where they do all that and then invest money in US tech industry? Otherwise it sounds like we're ok with all this enslavement, abuse and all, but just to a point - and the breaking point where we say "no more! we really need to have a serious talk about it now!" is buying AAPL stock. Doesn't…

I take your point, but I never found SV to be particularly more moral or just than any other money hub. We aren't particularly surprised when Wall Street makes decisions purely based on money.

SV is not particularly moral in relationship to the rest of the society, neither should it be - there's no reason why knowing how to program or assemble electronic gadgets makes one more morally advanced.

However, when all that stuff in Saudia happens, I don't see too many articles in the Big Press worrying about it day and night. But when they buy some AAPL stock suddenly NYT wakes up and cries out for the inhumanity of the Saudi regime. Where were you all the time before?!

I wouldn't expect any particular moral advancedness from SV and Wall Street. But I would expect that the same people who slept through decades of Saudis being around, doing what they do, sending money into the US and buying all kind of stuff won't wake up now and start crying "but how can SV accept money from evil Saudis!"

I mean it's good we're talking morals. But it is very questionable that we are only talking morals in very isolated cases. It is good to have principles, but when principles are taken out of the pocket when it's convenient and hidden back what that is more convenient, those aren't principles one can respect.

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