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Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

nytimes.com

41–50 of 289 posts

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#41
There is something to this argument, but it's ruined.

The author and many others don't like Saudi Arabia and Russia. That's the main reason for advocating a boycott of their investment money, because while the author mentions the poor human rights records of those two countries as the reason, there are plenty of other countries with such records. The main example of which is China, which is of course not mentioned.

The US itself has a poor human rights record on many things, and especially given our current president, had the author been writing from any other country, the US might have been on the list of countries whose money should not be accepted.

I'm not saying the US is as bad as China and Russia and Saudi Arabia. I'm not even saying China is as bad as Russia and Saudi Arabia. I am saying that if you care deeply about this, you should mention more than the easiest targets, if only to avoid the appearance of bias.

The bias also shows itself by considering an entire country as a single entity, when the author says we should not accept Russian investors' money. To justify it, the author says that if a Russian investor has ties to Kremlin-backed companies, they should be off limits. But that probably encompasses a large number of Russian investors. Same as the group of investors with ties to companies funded by US government money (DARPA, NSA, CIA, etc.).

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#42
post #4

They bought Twitter specifically because of twiiters role in the Arab spring so they could prevent the revolutionary fever spread to Saudi Arabia. It worked.

This is a more interesting angle than merely looking for ROI. The power of social media to bring about unrest is definitely an incentive for regimes to control said social media. OTOH, we are now getting decentralized social media such as Mastodon.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#43
post #38

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

The article is really asking "why does the tech industry accept Saudi money?", not "why does Saudi Arabia invest in tech companies?"

Same answer: simple avarice.

There is a lot of Saudi money and they are willing to invest it. And their money is just as good for hiring programmers and renting servers as anyone else's.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#44
Companies, except Twitter and Kingdom Holdings, take money from Softbank's Vision Fund. This fund incidentally has a lot of backing from the Saudis. Softank is a famous name in the VC and tech circle.

So, I am wondering how many tech startups do a reverse due diligence on the companies offering them money? Is that a normal expected practice?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#46

Same reason they invest in Fox News—aim the weapon at your enemy, like Iran. It’s no coincidence the media is always screaming about Iran, who is actually more moderate than our supposed ally Saudi Arabia. It’s a way to buy themselves a free pass from criticism.

Yes, they very moderately chant "death to America", very moderately openly promise to wipe Israel from the map, very moderately openly finance and arm terrorist organizations, and so on. All very moderately. And of course their nukes that they'll get pretty soon will be also completely moderate.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#47
post #21

Saudis are smart to invest in tech when future of oil is questionable. That's despite the game of thrones "fun" going on there right now. And tech despite its "progressive" PR doesn't care about source of money anyway; purity is for tech plebs, not for rulers.

despite the game of thrones "fun" going on there right now

That's simultaneously a reference to George R. R. Martin and Toys for Bob!

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#48
post #8

Because it's a good investment, and Saudi Arabia is desperate to diversify their money before all the oil dries up. Why is this complicated?

The question is not why would the Saudis want to invest, it's why an industry that always talks about how progressive and innovative it is is so happy to compromise those values. This presents a conundrum. Tech companies are fond of pseudo-revolutionary mission statements that extol the virtues of diversity, tolerance, freedom of expression and other progressive ideals. They have argued that their technologies are pa…

I think the answer is that Silicon Valley is all those things. They are caught up in a moral panic. Look at their history: pro women's right's publically, but sexist privately; anti-school choice for the average person, but sends their kids to private school ; reject new water pipeline for farmers because piped water over long distance is unnatural; keeps existing water rights to their cities. Silicon Valley is not and probably never has been virtuous ; it has often virtue signaled.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#49

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

Even if it isn’t nefarious, maybe we still shouldn’t let them profit off our liberal democracy while they exploit their own citizens, enslave foreigners, fund terrorism, and abuse women. Maybe we shouldn’t let them have their cake and eat it too. Make them pick between human rights and investing in the S&P500.

You don't understand people.

The purpose of political rhetoric is political. The purpose of pro-human-rights language in the west is to change the political order in the west to the advantage of the orators. It is NOT to make things pro-human-rights.

So you're violating the rules. You propose actual change. This is not allowed. You only get to propose putting the current favorites into "power" (for them of course the same rules apply: they don't get to make actual change except on the edges of the sidelines. E.g. assign construction projects to their favorites).

This is as true in San Francisco as it is in Washington.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#50
post #43
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is really asking "why does the tech industry accept Saudi money?", not "why does Saudi Arabia invest in tech companies?"

Same answer: simple avarice. There is a lot of Saudi money and they are willing to invest it. And their money is just as good for hiring programmers and renting servers as anyone else's.

So--money is money?

I was going to bring up ethics/morality, but maybe it's all basically dirty?

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