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Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#11

Post by aaron-lebo »

mabbo wrote: post #8

Because it's a good investment, and Saudi Arabia is desperate to diversify their money before all the oil dries up. Why is this complicated?

The question is not why would the Saudis want to invest, it's why an industry that always talks about how progressive and innovative it is is so happy to compromise those values.

This presents a conundrum. Tech companies are fond of pseudo-revolutionary mission statements that extol the virtues of diversity, tolerance, freedom of expression and other progressive ideals. They have argued that their technologies are part of a force for global liberation — that forging more open communication and economic productivity through technology will loosen the grip of tyrannies across the globe. For much of the last year, Silicon Valley has also promised a revolution in its own culture, with large and small companies alike vowing to become more inclusive of women and minorities.

To outsiders it looks fake, hypocritical, and a little immoral. $300 million is nice, but why sell your soul for it?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#12

Post by QAPereo »

diogenescynic wrote: post #10
megaman22 wrote: post #5

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

Even if it isn’t nefarious, maybe we still shouldn’t let them profit off our liberal democracy while they exploit their own citizens, enslave foreigners, fund terrorism, and abuse women. Maybe we shouldn’t let them have their cake and eat it too. Make them pick between human rights and investing in the S&P500.

...How? How do you get a diverse and often quarrelsome world to agree on something that huge?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#13

Post by toomuchtodo »

QAPereo wrote: post #12
diogenescynic wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it isn’t nefarious, maybe we still shouldn’t let them profit off our liberal democracy while they exploit their own citizens, enslave foreigners, fund terrorism, and abuse women. Maybe we shouldn’t let them have their cake and eat it too. Make them pick between human rights and investing in the S&P500.

...How? How do you get a diverse and often quarrelsome world to agree on something that huge?

You apply pressure on companies taking investment from the Saudis collectively.

If you can’t support Uber because of an atmosphere of sexually harassment, how can you support them when their investment dollars are coming from a country that subjugates women? That creates an indentured servant class from imported labor? That sort of argument. It’s blood money, and that’s the narrative you use (if one was so inclined).

Failing that, you’ll have to resort to politics.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#14

Post by [deleted] »

megaman22 wrote: post #5

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

[deleted]

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#15

Post by Alex3917 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #3

If the CIA, Russia, China, and Saudi Arabia all fund startups, would the conflicting interests then cancel each other out?

Yes, and this is largely the point. The reason foreign governments invest in U.S. tech is because they see it as a path to good relations with the U.S. government. Or at least good enough to avoid getting bombed and having their assets frozen. It's not about making money, it's about reducing geopolitical risk. If these countries wanted to make money then they'd just sell weapons, traffic drugs, build stuff with slave labor, etc., all of which are a lot more profitable than workplace smoothie delivery or whatever.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#16

Post by l33tbro »

diogenescynic wrote: post #10
megaman22 wrote: post #5

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

Even if it isn’t nefarious, maybe we still shouldn’t let them profit off our liberal democracy while they exploit their own citizens, enslave foreigners, fund terrorism, and abuse women. Maybe we shouldn’t let them have their cake and eat it too. Make them pick between human rights and investing in the S&P500.

Well if you want to talk sanctions, I'd say selling them $110 billion in weapons a few months back is slightly more concerning than slamming shut the bank counter screens on them.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#17

Post by SubiculumCode »

QAPereo wrote: post #12
diogenescynic wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it isn’t nefarious, maybe we still shouldn’t let them profit off our liberal democracy while they exploit their own citizens, enslave foreigners, fund terrorism, and abuse women. Maybe we shouldn’t let them have their cake and eat it too. Make them pick between human rights and investing in the S&P500.

...How? How do you get a diverse and often quarrelsome world to agree on something that huge?

Minimum standards of conduct before a nation is allowed to do trade another nation or to join a trade agreement...or basically like most other negotiations.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#18

Post by throwaway76543 »

diogenescynic wrote: post #10
megaman22 wrote: post #5

The tech industry has, historically and in aggregate, had pretty solid rates of returns. If I was sitting on a dwindling store of natural resources as my primary store of wealth, I would probably want to try to diversify that wealth into other areas and grow that wealth aggressively while my potentially limited income source is still highly profitable. I'm not sure that more nefarious aims need to be posited than sim…

Even if it isn’t nefarious, maybe we still shouldn’t let them profit off our liberal democracy while they exploit their own citizens, enslave foreigners, fund terrorism, and abuse women. Maybe we shouldn’t let them have their cake and eat it too. Make them pick between human rights and investing in the S&P500.

The best way to bring countries into the fold of western civilization, to convince them to adopt our beliefs and values, is to engage with them in trade.

Exclusionary tactics have not had great results, historically.

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#19

Post by omarforgotpwd »

I think you could argue that it is actually inhumane to deny certain people the right to investment gains from american companies. Sure you may not like the Saudi Arabian government but ultimately they are trying to create a plan to secure the future of real people who are not all evil, though it may look that way from our cultural vantage point. The Saudis haven’t tended to try and influence their investments, they are mostly a silent investor so far. So if they are not doing anything evil and providing additional liquidity and demand to American capital markets, why go after them or the tech companies that sell them shares?

Re: Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why

#20

Post by SubiculumCode »

diogenescynic wrote: post #7

Same reason they invest in Fox News—aim the weapon at your enemy, like Iran. It’s no coincidence the media is always screaming about Iran, who is actually more moderate than our supposed ally Saudi Arabia. It’s a way to buy themselves a free pass from criticism.

Iran may be moderate, but they are also aligned with Russia. I'd like Iran to align with the West, but too many sides are in their trenches.
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