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How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

bbc.co.uk

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Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#251

Post by crdoconnor »

landryraccoon wrote: post #211
toomuchtodo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a balancing act, though. At the end of the day, there is no way you as a corporation can entirely subvert a nation state. I find it odd even that rational individuals think its possible against an adversary (typically with effectively unlimited resources) that can tariff you, dissolve your organization, and even jail you.

It's not corporation against nation state, it's nation state against nation state. I'm pretty sure China would be quite happy if the US punishes Apple. That means that their protectionist policy towards Huawei will be even more effective. It is difficult for me to imagine other nations either not rolling out the red carpet to bring Apple over, or giving virtually tax free giveaways to their own companies to gain smar…

>I'm pretty sure China would be quite happy if the US punishes Apple. That means that their protectionist policy towards Huawei will be even more effective.

If the US put onerous taxes on the purchase of Apple phones that might be true.

If the US instead just collects a larger share of Apple's profits then Apple is going to go on exactly as before and just not deliver quite as much cash to its shareholders.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#252

Post by lucio »

canuckintime wrote: post #4
rrggrr wrote: post #2

If passed, and for a brief period of time, Trump's dollar repatriation tax scheme brings home some of the +2 trillion dollars sequestered abroad - including some of the billions Apple has parked offshore. http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gop-tax-reform-plan-bil... There's something to be said for Apple's efforts to level the playing field against the favorable tax & public policies under which Samsung and Huawei…

Or the US Congress could just change the law, close the loophole and require corporations to bring the money home anyway without any tax holidays...

It depends, if you decide to tax them too much, they'll "just" change home.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#253

Post by [deleted] »

make3 wrote: post #233
donutdan4114 wrote: post #39

The issue with all of these major companies will forever be their "product". --- From: Silicon Valley (HBO) Jack: Richard, I don't think you understand what the product is. The product isn't the platform, and the product isn't your algorithm, either. And it's not even the software. Do you know what Pied Piper's product is, Richard? Richard: Is... Is it me? Jack: Oh God! No! No. How could it possibly be you? You got f…

wtf does this even mean. companies will always care about profitability for their owners. that's the whole point of starting and having a business

[deleted]

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#254

Post by hammock »

fredley wrote: post #116
hammock wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only way to prevent this is to impose fines, tariffs and penalties The ONLY solution to an abuse of power by government is more government exercise of power? How about limiting the powers of government to remove the "direct incentive to lobby"?

So they only players left are the large corporations? I don't think you can have thought this through, so I'll take you through it: Nation states are social constructs, whereby some people collectively lay claim to some land, and have their claim recognised by all the other states. In order to be able to do this, a key thing you must be able to do is defend your patch of land. This requires some sort of military, who…

Thanks for "taking me through that." Never thought about that before now.

Let me take you through your scenario.. you give government increasing power to censure corporations it doesn't like, effectively making it kingmaker of the economy. You end up with something like China where every company is state-sanctioned, and there is widespread graft and corruption.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#256

Post by lucio »

nautilus12 wrote: post #71
whatok wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure Apple is following existing tax laws.

mrguyorama I agree 1000% and most reasonable people should as well. The technical letter of the law should not matter as much as the spirit of the law!

Then you're at the mercy of the judge. That's a very bad scenario. With literal interpretation, the legal system is way more previsible.

What if the literal interpretation create unfair loopholes?

Then you change the law.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#257

Post by crdoconnor »

vixen99 wrote: post #126
nautilus12 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the spirit of the law is effectively being broken. Sidestepping the law does not constitute following it in my opinion. Laws are meant to be guidelines and legal precedent defines its true extent, you cannot make laws extensive enough to cover every scenario. If they make it illegal to offshore money then apple will simply find a way to establish a corporation on the moon. Its clearly demonstrable that they are g…

A British judge, Lord Hoffman commented ‘The only way in which Parliament can express an intention to impose a tax is by a statute that means that such a tax is to be imposed,’. In other words, for tax there is no distinction between the spirit and letter of the law. They’re one and the same.

>In other words, for tax there is no distinction between the spirit and letter of the law.

HMRC's essentially disagreed with the spirit was being followed in this case and Google paid up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35381130

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#259

Post by komali2 »

macintux wrote: post #231
pathseeker wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. by random selection, every social category is represented equally No, every social category would be represented similar to their ratio in the rest of society. This wouldn't line up well with many groups that want much stronger support for minorities. Take Native American concerns for example. With just over 1% of the population being Native American they will probably only end up with a few representatives out o…

There's also the point that 100 random people won't have any background on the topic in question. Who's going to help them understand it? Most likely the same vested interests that today lobby the government.

It's a fun solution to consider, but I'm also concerned in that lobbying for this solution already exists - mass marketing, which has already been mastered.

My parents had me at 17 and had no idea how to raise kids. They see a commercial of kids eating cereal and poptarts, so they feed me cereal and poptarts under the false assumption that that is a healthy meal, and that plus other factors led to me growing up fat and unhealthy.

Basically, if lobbying is a problem, disinformation through mass marketing is a MAJOR problem.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#260

Post by ballenf »

canuckintime wrote: post #4
rrggrr wrote: post #2

If passed, and for a brief period of time, Trump's dollar repatriation tax scheme brings home some of the +2 trillion dollars sequestered abroad - including some of the billions Apple has parked offshore. http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gop-tax-reform-plan-bil... There's something to be said for Apple's efforts to level the playing field against the favorable tax & public policies under which Samsung and Huawei…

Or the US Congress could just change the law, close the loophole and require corporations to bring the money home anyway without any tax holidays...

David Mitchell makes an interesting argument regarding moral outrage against entities taking advantage of "loopholes".

https://youtu.be/m2q-Csk-ktc?t=25s

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