When Microsoft dominated the browser market they introduced non standard extentions. Now google dominates and does that too.
Chrome breaks the Web
261–270 of 473 posts
Re: Chrome breaks the Web
#262Google is toxic for the future of the internet, but its services are convenient so from time to time a few of us will complain when they inconvenience us, like in this case, but will continue using Google products and completely forget about our grievance with this company.
Case and point, I don't hear anyone complaining about amp anymore, or the fact that when you search for inventor in some US states you are presented with a bunch of irrelevant black people rather than actual inventors like Edison, Tesla, etc. Sadly, like with those cases this story too will blow over and nobody will care about it in less then a week.
Re: Chrome breaks the Web
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
> does assumption on how things "should" be (in a highly subjective way) They claim they are making these decisions based on user data which I have no reason to doubt. > and breaks the web. Breaks crap websites that are broken already from performance and usability perspective. I personally think this is exactly what is needed to make the web better as a whole. Individual developers working for individual companies a…
Woah woah woah. Let me recount/nutshell the crux of conversations I've had with my product manager(s) about things like this. Me: Hey, I'd like to add a work-item to our current sprint that reworks semantic attributes into our site. Them: What would that do? Me: It improves the underlying architecture making the markup more usable and extensible. Them: How does that benefit the users? Me: Over time it will reduce the…
presumably if google broke your crappily marked up website then you'd be able to justify fixing it?
so what's the problem?
Re: Chrome breaks the Web
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not the browser developers jobs to police the web.
But it is the job of browser developers to build programs that serve their users. If I, as a user, want to autocomplete a form field, the website operator doesn't get a say in whether I can do that. The settings that come with the markup are best understood as a recommendation, a slight hint that autocomplete might not be appropriate here. The final say is always with the user, though. Sadly, through over-usage on th…
But completely ignoring it isn't super helpful either. I run into more issues with chrome autofilling in forms inappropriately than I ever did with forms that I couldn't autofill.
I think the solution is to follow the hint, but give users an override button next to or inside form fields that have it set to off.
Re: Chrome breaks the Web
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Netscape is irrelevant. Netscape is entirely relevant. The question was raised about how different Google / Chrome are compared to Microsoft / IE and the answer is Netscape. Microsoft tried to tie the internet into their own platform, Windows + IE, due to them pushing non-standard rendering and ActiveX. Whatever your opinion of Chrome's break from standards might be, Google simply are not trying to lock people into…
> Whatever your opinion of Chrome's break from standards might be, Google simply are not trying to lock people into Chrome on Android / ChromeOS. That assertion is laughable on it's face. Of course Google does brand lock-in, the fact that their brand is further reaching across more markets than Windows/IE were doesn't negate that they attempt brand lock-in at every opportunity they can. In fact Chrome largely was sta…
The more people use the web, the more Google gains. It's really as simple as that. People switching their media consumption from traditional media (TV and dead tree) to the web is what makes Google more money.
How? Advertising budgets follow those eyes. Google is a nobody in TV ads, so doesn't get any part from the (big) money advertisers are currently spending there. If these would switch to targeting the web (where Google is the dominant actor), chances are that huge chunks of those ad budgets will be inserted into Google's giant ad placement machine.
Re: Chrome breaks the Web
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not all users have a choice to leave a website. If a Chrome update breaks the governmental website that relied on some "never used" feature and the user can no longer, say, apply to unemployment insurance, real people would be getting affected in very real ways. We wanted technology to part of peoples lives, now it is, we have to own up to the responsibility.
Couldn't they use Firefox?
So many websites have "Use with Chrome" that if a user sees the website not working in Chrome, it's likely that the user will assume the website is broken, not the browser.
Re: Chrome breaks the Web
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dude, autocomplete=off should just work. Chrome does the WRONG THING. Spec says what to do, living spec says what to do - Chrome does whatever they want. It's BS. It breaks the web. Then chrome Devs say to use autocomplete=something-stupid to get the specification behaviour of 'off' WTF is that?! Donate to Firefox. Chrome is the new IE
> Dude, autocomplete=off should just work. Chrome does the WRONG THING. Screw you. I've probably encountered 'autocomplete=off' thousands of times in my browsing history, and maybe 1% of the time was it being used for something that wasn't user-hostile. I don't care what the spec says, I care about what's good for users. If the spec writers aren't willing to embrace that, vendors will ignore it.
I think I agree with you - autocomplete=off more often than not just makes me angry. It's honestly a big reason why I prefer Chrome, it tends to do the right thing here.
I didn't realize until now that it doing the right thing from my (the user's) perspective was because it was breaking a web standard, but damn if I don't find it useful.
Re: Chrome breaks the Web
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regulatory compliance. I've worked on applications that had to go to great lengths to get the target browser platform to not do something like auto-complete authentication credentials. Philosophically-speaking some Web Platform developers think that it's more secure for the browser to autofill credentials from a keychain so that users can use better passwords and not be burdened with remember N-pseudo-random characte…
> Regulatory compliance. > there are plenty of regulations in certain setting that require us to disallow client applications from auto-filling form fields. And which regulations would those be, specifically?
If I recall in Part 11 compliance (which is how the FDA regulates software in the US) one is required to ensure that "Passwords are not remembered by [browsers] and applications."
From an ISO/IEC/IEEE 29148 perspective the language might be "shall not remember passwords" which would imply a legally binding requirement for compliance purposes.
This doesn't preclude applications from using autocomplete on form entry from password managers; just that the browser is not allowed to remember the entered password.
However in practice I've seen most systems deploy their applications on a target platform that runs the browser in "kiosk" mode, which if I recall from the time, was an IE-only thing. In more modern times we're starting to see consumer-level tablets and devices enter the mix and I'm not even sure if those can be locked down into a multi-user/kiosk type mode. Regardless... the web is a difficult platform for this kind of stuff.
Re: Chrome breaks the Web
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
> does assumption on how things "should" be (in a highly subjective way) They claim they are making these decisions based on user data which I have no reason to doubt. > and breaks the web. Breaks crap websites that are broken already from performance and usability perspective. I personally think this is exactly what is needed to make the web better as a whole. Individual developers working for individual companies a…
Woah woah woah. Let me recount/nutshell the crux of conversations I've had with my product manager(s) about things like this. Me: Hey, I'd like to add a work-item to our current sprint that reworks semantic attributes into our site. Them: What would that do? Me: It improves the underlying architecture making the markup more usable and extensible. Them: How does that benefit the users? Me: Over time it will reduce the…
This is true in a very practical sense: Product people will not care about engineering specifics. But that being said, I think you're missing the important take-away from that conclusion:
You must decide that it's necessary. As an engineer, you are the most qualified individual to determine if something is technically necessary. Just like you decided that proper indentation, unit tests, refactors, etc. are important, so must we decide that other elements are.
Re: Chrome breaks the Web
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
They can afford to do this due to their market share. This is precisely why I refuse to use Chrome. I use Firefox and would do so even if it were an inferior browser, plus at this point in time and for my usage patterns Firefox really is superior.
You're refusing to use Chrome because it gives the middle finger to websites that want to disable your password manager? Are you making this decision as a user or a website owner?
Chrome disables it for all fields. That's the difference