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Chrome breaks the Web

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Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#251

Post by FussyZeus »

laumars wrote: post #244
FussyZeus wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not really comparable to IE. MS had a pretty explicit goal of destroying Netscape - to the extent that they were making deals with other companies to break compat with Netscape. Netscape is irrelevant. The fact is Chrome is using it's market dominance to affect the implementation of standards and in doing so, is breaking numerous websites. That IE is famous for but because Chrome is made by Google, it gets a p…

> Netscape is irrelevant. Netscape is entirely relevant. The question was raised about how different Google / Chrome are compared to Microsoft / IE and the answer is Netscape. Microsoft tried to tie the internet into their own platform, Windows + IE, due to them pushing non-standard rendering and ActiveX. Whatever your opinion of Chrome's break from standards might be, Google simply are not trying to lock people into…

> Whatever your opinion of Chrome's break from standards might be, Google simply are not trying to lock people into Chrome on Android / ChromeOS.

That assertion is laughable on it's face. Of course Google does brand lock-in, the fact that their brand is further reaching across more markets than Windows/IE were doesn't negate that they attempt brand lock-in at every opportunity they can. In fact Chrome largely was started because Google wanted to control the browser aspect of the experience, otherwise why would they make it?

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#253

Post by michaelmrose »

ivanhoe wrote: post #148
saas_co_de wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does assumption on how things "should" be (in a highly subjective way) They claim they are making these decisions based on user data which I have no reason to doubt. > and breaks the web. Breaks crap websites that are broken already from performance and usability perspective. I personally think this is exactly what is needed to make the web better as a whole. Individual developers working for individual companies a…

There are valid arguments for both sides, but instead of forcing this upon everyone, Chrome team could have added it as a config option. Set the defaults for autocomplete anyway you like, and then let the user change the behaviour only on some sites. Or if you don't wish to pollute the settings with this, extract this behaviour into an extension and let the people choose if it bothers them enough to go and install it…

Either googles solution is better or its not. If it is then google should make it the default even if it provides an option. Then even if they provide the option 99.999% will use the default rendering the option basically worthless.

If its not they should probably just work how everyone else works.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#254

Post by TheCoelacanth »

joering2 wrote: post #196

Why the heck would they take out the checkbox on javascript alert box to "not repeat anymore". Since they did, the only option to leave annoying website that pops javascript alerts in never-ending loop is Ctr+Alt+Del. What were they thinking??

Didn't they make it so that you can switch tabs and close tabs even when one of the tabs has an alert open?

Of course, sometimes it still is nice to be able to turn off alerts and then keep using the page.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#255

Post by jstarfish »

FussyZeus wrote: post #176
staticassertion wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really comparable to IE. MS had a pretty explicit goal of destroying Netscape - to the extent that they were making deals with other companies to break compat with Netscape. Chrome is breaking 'autofill=false' on webforms because its really bad to have autofill=false most of the time . For example, this was breaking password managers, forcing users to have a worse experience around something as security crit…

> It's not really comparable to IE. MS had a pretty explicit goal of destroying Netscape - to the extent that they were making deals with other companies to break compat with Netscape. Netscape is irrelevant. The fact is Chrome is using it's market dominance to affect the implementation of standards and in doing so, is breaking numerous websites. That IE is famous for but because Chrome is made by Google, it gets a p…

> That is not the Chrome web-teams decision to make. The point of standards is that the standards should be followed, regardless of your or anyone elses opinion. If you disagree with a standard, you work to change the standard, you don't just change your browser's implementation of the standard, break a ton of functionality all over the web, and then sit there saying "well that's how it should be."

You're exaggerating the point of standards, and/or confusing them with specifications. Standards have always been open to (ed: some amount of) interpretation with regards to how they are implemented.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#256

Post by slrz »

FussyZeus wrote: post #176
staticassertion wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really comparable to IE. MS had a pretty explicit goal of destroying Netscape - to the extent that they were making deals with other companies to break compat with Netscape. Chrome is breaking 'autofill=false' on webforms because its really bad to have autofill=false most of the time . For example, this was breaking password managers, forcing users to have a worse experience around something as security crit…

> It's not really comparable to IE. MS had a pretty explicit goal of destroying Netscape - to the extent that they were making deals with other companies to break compat with Netscape. Netscape is irrelevant. The fact is Chrome is using it's market dominance to affect the implementation of standards and in doing so, is breaking numerous websites. That IE is famous for but because Chrome is made by Google, it gets a p…

Except that the Chrome behaviour isn't non-conforming. AFAICT, honoring autocomplete="off" is not required UA behaviour. It's a 'should', not a 'must'.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#258

Post by bastijn »

Reading the comments here make me feel Chrome is like Uber. They may be right in that the standards are outdated and force change. Yet, it breaks all rules and regulations which they shrug off saying the rules have to change.

Again, this is not a comment to choose sides. Just an observation. As with Uber I can’t say if I’m in favor or against. By law, they are wrong. In time, it may turn out they have led change. Funny thing how you can get applauded as patriots for breaking the rules early as long as you were right in the end but critiqued otherwise.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#259

Post by wtetzner »

labster wrote: post #190
edoceo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, autocomplete=off should just work. Chrome does the WRONG THING. Spec says what to do, living spec says what to do - Chrome does whatever they want. It's BS. It breaks the web. Then chrome Devs say to use autocomplete=something-stupid to get the specification behaviour of 'off' WTF is that?! Donate to Firefox. Chrome is the new IE

Or you know, just use Firefox. The only problem right now being that you need to install Dev Edition to get a decent experience (i.e. version 57).

Not for much longer, I think Firefox 57 is schedule for release on November 14th.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#260

Post by wtetzner »

michaelmrose wrote: post #253
ivanhoe wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are valid arguments for both sides, but instead of forcing this upon everyone, Chrome team could have added it as a config option. Set the defaults for autocomplete anyway you like, and then let the user change the behaviour only on some sites. Or if you don't wish to pollute the settings with this, extract this behaviour into an extension and let the people choose if it bothers them enough to go and install it…

Either googles solution is better or its not. If it is then google should make it the default even if it provides an option. Then even if they provide the option 99.999% will use the default rendering the option basically worthless. If its not they should probably just work how everyone else works.

> Either googles solution is better or its not.

Except that whether it's better or not is probably contingent on the particular web site and particular user.

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