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How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

bbc.co.uk

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Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#41

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

fleitz wrote: post #37
fredley wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the fault of Capitalism alone. In a healthy democracy, the people vote in the Government, who can impose fines, tariffs, penalties and such on companies and business practices that the people (via the people they elect) deem to be working against them. Sadly, as you point out, this creates a direct incentive to lobby or otherwise attempt to control Government by large and powerful companies. The only way…

The people of Ireland have democracy, perhaps they have different views on taxation than you do. It may come as a surprise to you but some people aren't so greedy as to believe that they are entitled to the fruits of other's labour.

Most Irish citizens had no idea about the extend of this.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#42

Post by mannykannot »

colemannugent wrote: post #13
komali2 wrote: post #5

If you unplugged Apple's board (or given decision-making apparatus) and plugged in a (currently nonexistent) AI with the parameter "Maximize Profit," would you see a different result? I think not. I think we'd see things far more morally horrifying, in fact, with just enough PR makeup to ensure "maximized profit." Unsure why we laud capitalism and then act horrified at the result. Here in America we've made our decis…

I see your point about the bad side of capitalism, but consider that this kind of abuse is only possible because the governments allow it. No economic system can live up to its design when corrupt governments interfere with it.

Nice try, but there is not much point in considering the corrupted without also taking a look at who is doing the corrupting.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#43

Post by tryingagainbro »

I'm with Apple on this one. The government can make it illegal if they wanted to. But it's not so Apple of John Doe should not be bothered for doing legal things when it comes to taxes.

If what they're doing is illegal, slap them with a fine too (like EU did...it's currently on appeal i think)

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#44

Post by evv »

fredley wrote: post #23
komali2 wrote: post #5

If you unplugged Apple's board (or given decision-making apparatus) and plugged in a (currently nonexistent) AI with the parameter "Maximize Profit," would you see a different result? I think not. I think we'd see things far more morally horrifying, in fact, with just enough PR makeup to ensure "maximized profit." Unsure why we laud capitalism and then act horrified at the result. Here in America we've made our decis…

This is not the fault of Capitalism alone. In a healthy democracy, the people vote in the Government, who can impose fines, tariffs, penalties and such on companies and business practices that the people (via the people they elect) deem to be working against them. Sadly, as you point out, this creates a direct incentive to lobby or otherwise attempt to control Government by large and powerful companies. The only way…

It's a noble idea that government should exist to protect consumers from corporations. But it will never work unless there is some authority that could protect the governments from the corporations.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#45

Post by fleitz »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #41
fleitz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people of Ireland have democracy, perhaps they have different views on taxation than you do. It may come as a surprise to you but some people aren't so greedy as to believe that they are entitled to the fruits of other's labour.

Most Irish citizens had no idea about the extend of this.

So what you're saying is their corporate tax law wasn't enough of a concern to them to actually read it?

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#46

Post by sp332 »

sol_remmy wrote: post #30
komali2 wrote: post #5

If you unplugged Apple's board (or given decision-making apparatus) and plugged in a (currently nonexistent) AI with the parameter "Maximize Profit," would you see a different result? I think not. I think we'd see things far more morally horrifying, in fact, with just enough PR makeup to ensure "maximized profit." Unsure why we laud capitalism and then act horrified at the result. Here in America we've made our decis…

If you unplugged the government's board (or given decision-making apparatus) and plugged in a (currently nonexistent) AI with the parameter "Maximize Power of Government," would you see a different result? I think not. ----- My point is that you are implying government is the alternative ("they will govern morally! academics will keep them in check! journalists will keep them in check!") then you need to rethink your…

If it's some kind of representative government, then it would be "the government will push back on anything that threatens the interests of the majority." If you had a power-maximizing AI instead of politicians, it should still court voters.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#47

Post by lbotos »

DINKDINK wrote: post #31

Point of debate: Why should Apple have the US government lay claim to the revenue/profits that it generates in non US countries? From the article: "This allowed Apple to funnel all its sales outside of the Americas - currently about 55% of its revenue - through Irish subsidiaries that were effectively stateless for taxation purposes, and so incurred hardly any tax." If you support the taxation, do you also support th…

Doesn't it already? I've been under the impression that is one of the big "things" about being an American. You will always pay taxes to the US:

"If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside."

Per https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxp...

EDIT: To answer your question, no, I don't like that, but I don't think "companies" should be exempt.

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#48

Post by nautilus12 »

komali2 wrote: post #5

If you unplugged Apple's board (or given decision-making apparatus) and plugged in a (currently nonexistent) AI with the parameter "Maximize Profit," would you see a different result? I think not. I think we'd see things far more morally horrifying, in fact, with just enough PR makeup to ensure "maximized profit." Unsure why we laud capitalism and then act horrified at the result. Here in America we've made our decis…

The issue is not capitalism and existing law, but the interpretation and enforcement of the law. The issue is that we have removed rational judgement from legal proceeding with regards to tax law. Its clearly demonstrable that Apple is not following the spirit of US tax law, but simply sidestepping the law by offshoring its money in this way. Does anyone with more legal expertise know of a more concise way of expressing this? Could the state simply sue apple and if they win then this establishes a new precedent for not offshoring money to dodge taxes?

Re: How Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its Irish tax practices

#50

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

fleitz wrote: post #45
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Irish citizens had no idea about the extend of this.

So what you're saying is their corporate tax law wasn't enough of a concern to them to actually read it?

This was not a law but a secret bespoke areangement.
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