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Chrome breaks the Web

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Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#191

Post by ckocagil »

bad_user wrote: post #19
KeitIG wrote: post #9

> they made all top-level event listeners passive by default. They call it “an intervention”. This is my very problem with Chrome/Chromium right now. The Chrome team does assumption on how things "should" be (in a highly subjective way) and breaks the web. Another example: they decided to ignore the value of `autocomplete` attributes on ` ` tags [1], because: > The tricky part here is that somewhere along the journey…

They can afford to do this due to their market share. This is precisely why I refuse to use Chrome. I use Firefox and would do so even if it were an inferior browser, plus at this point in time and for my usage patterns Firefox really is superior.

You're refusing to use Chrome because it gives the middle finger to websites that want to disable your password manager? Are you making this decision as a user or a website owner?

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#192

Post by porfirium »

pvdebbe wrote: post #5
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #4

I side with Google on this one. IMO we should be breaking JavaScript more often, especially in the name of performance, to make people use less JS and simpler JS on their websites.

Except that Firefox LTS and other minority browsers suffer. I already use a couple sites that disregard all old Firefox compatibilities and use JS that break things up

If you use a very old version of your browser I'm sure you expect many things to break.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#193

Post by BFatts »

saas_co_de wrote: post #84
KeitIG wrote: post #9

> they made all top-level event listeners passive by default. They call it “an intervention”. This is my very problem with Chrome/Chromium right now. The Chrome team does assumption on how things "should" be (in a highly subjective way) and breaks the web. Another example: they decided to ignore the value of `autocomplete` attributes on ` ` tags [1], because: > The tricky part here is that somewhere along the journey…

> does assumption on how things "should" be (in a highly subjective way) They claim they are making these decisions based on user data which I have no reason to doubt. > and breaks the web. Breaks crap websites that are broken already from performance and usability perspective. I personally think this is exactly what is needed to make the web better as a whole. Individual developers working for individual companies a…

"Individual developers working for individual companies are rarely if ever thinking about the good of their users, except in a very narrow profit motivated sense, and never thinking about the good of the ecosystem as a whole."

Are you serious? No one thinks this way? I've worked at several companies where the software I've written was EXPLICITLY written with others in mind. To claim "rarely, if ever" shows that you know very little about this industry. Or, you surround yourself with a bunch of selfish people who shouldn't be doing software development.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#194

Post by [deleted] »

Groxx wrote: post #178
deno wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This page doesn’t do scroll-jacking. Its state appears to update asynchronously based on the scroll position. That is the correct way to do this sort of thing. Scrolling on this article is buttery smooth on my Apollo Lake (1.1GHz Celeron) netbook, on both Firefox and Chrome, even if the background animations aren’t. No jank whatsoever.

meanwhile... once I scroll to the globe, Chrome locks up. :| Scrolling in FF is indeed super smooth, but that background janks all over the place. Not sure what I'd prefer, tbh, though agreed that the vast majority of scrolljacking is utter garbage.

[deleted]

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#195

Post by untog »

Manishearth wrote: post #180
untog wrote: post #10

> Turned out, Google wasn’t concerned about your websites at all. It was more concerned about its own product performance, Google Chrome Mobile. As a web developer, I see this attitude a lot and it annoys me immensely. Another way of phrasing it: Google is putting users first, ahead of developers. This is as it should be. "your" website exists to serve users, if you're doing a bad job at it then maybe it's an opportu…

The web is the only platform aside from perhaps some assembly languages that is that stable and that ubiquitous. Websites have always been a "write and forget" deal; there never was supposed to be any feedback loop of developers fixing breaking changes. This is why old websites from 1998 still work in your browser. This is why there are piles and piles of cruft within browsers and web standards for making sure old be…

> This is why old websites from 1998 still work in your browser.

They won't if they use a tag, for example. The problem is that if we freeze the entire web and demand 100% backwards compatibility, we also can't ever move forwards. This scroll event change is a positive in 99% of cases - should a web site built in 1998 really hold that back? There's no absolute in "putting users first" there - you're either putting the minority user looking at an old site first, or you're putting the majority looking at newer sites first.

Maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to introduce an "archival" mode in a browser. Nothing published on the web is ever truly broken because it's very well documented what it should do. So we can turn those features back on when viewing an older site that requires them - blinking text and all - while still moving forward on the platform people use every day.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#196

Post by joering2 »

Why the heck would they take out the checkbox on javascript alert box to "not repeat anymore". Since they did, the only option to leave annoying website that pops javascript alerts in never-ending loop is Ctr+Alt+Del.

What were they thinking??

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#197

Post by nostrademons »

saas_co_de wrote: post #120
ksk wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all would like to see this "user data" and make up our own mind. Is the whole open source thing just a gimmick for Google? >Individual developers working for individual companies are rarely if ever thinking about the good of their users, except in a very narrow profit motivated sense, and never thinking about the good of the ecosystem as a whole. >Google is also "breaking the web" by not auto playing videos, not a…

> Its interesting that you're calling for a browser to not implement standards The "standards" are created by the browser makers. It is up to them to decide what the standards are by choosing what to implement. For instance, Apple can decide to not allow 3rd party cookies, which "breaks the web" and "doesn't follow standards" but it is also the right thing to do.

In practice, the causality is even more delayed than you describe. Browser vendors implement what they want, and then once two or more vendors have implemented a feature and some developers have adopted it, it gets considered for standardization. Standards which are written without a working implementation are widely ignored; there's a whole graveyard around the W3C (see eg. the Semantic Web) where somebody wrote a standard and nobody cared.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#198

Post by ajross »

OK, this sounds bad. But... Devil's advocacy here: are there any real-world examples of actual sites whose event behavior was actually broken by this change in Chrome 56? It happened a few months back, and I don't remember anyone complaining.

I mean... it broke the author's app. Probably a few others somewhere. But it seems not to have broken anything significant.

I guess I fail to see the concern here. It's an edge case of an existing API that apparently "no one used". Google found a way to get a benefit from exploiting a "change" in this "unused" API, presumably tested to make sure it was unused, and then went ahead and pushed the change over an 8 month period.

Is that really so awful? As someone who lived through the early '00's and IE, this seems pretty benign to my eyes.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#199

Post by cpeterso »

gkya wrote: post #151
Spivak wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that some sites decided to use autocomplete=off to impose their feeling about password managers on users and make them more difficult to use. It's the same reason I have to turn off clipboard events because some sites think it's okay to block copy/paste.

How does autocomplete=off affect password managers?

Password manager applications that are not built into the browser use clipboard pasting to insert passwords into login form fields. If browsers honored autocomplete=off, websites could block the password manager applications from entering the passwords (on their own websites).

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#200

Post by what_ever »

fenwick67 wrote: post #68
nsebban wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent point. Hopefully someday a "lean webpages" movement appears.

It's here and it's basically the brutalism of the web, see Craigslist or the Drudge Report, or just look at Hacker News. These are not "web 2.0" designed but they are easy to use and well organized.

Except that Hacker News website is just dumb, lacks a ton of functionality and gets very basic design wrong. Have you looked at that upvote button? Is this a website for ants?
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