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How slot machines are designed to be addictive

theguardian.com

161–170 of 201 posts

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you about the house always winning, and I also don't gamble, however you can consider the activity as a game like an arcade game where the actual playing and spending time costs money, and has value in its own right. I guess the economics is slightly more nuanced, just how you can find addictive computer games which also cost like world of Warcraft I guess

Good point, but the way I see it there are two parts to a gambling game: (a) the physical rewards (blinkenlights, twinkly noises etc) and (b) the monetary rewards. If the physical rewards were enough of a draw in and of themselves, I think we could reasonably expect there to be a market for games that don't involve money. For instance, I could imagine smaller, cheaper slot machines sold directly to players, to take t…

> For instance, I could imagine smaller, cheaper slot machines sold directly to players, to take them home and feed them coins all day, just to see the pretty lights (I mean they could get their coins back at the end of the day).

Already exists, in a way, and are quite popular. Check out the slots games on the Apple and Android app stores; the ones that are created by subsidiaries of slot machine manufacturers (and therefore can make their slots in the likeness of real machines) rake in an astonishing amount of money, despite the fact that the player is just playing for virtual tokens rather than real cash payouts. A couple are in the top 10 by revenue in both app stores.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#162
post #113

Sadly, the article does disservice to a lot of actual mechanics of the industry. And the amount of hard work that goes on to actually makes these games addictive. It is not for no reason that these are called one-armed bandits. * This industry is highly regulated; but it rarely does help those really in need. If the regulations were very strictly implemented (player wager limits, player time controls, self-regulation…

With a mechanical slot machine I can understand the reel thing. But with electronic screens, software making up reels, how do I know that the software does not fool me even more? Take the given example with first slot 1/16, second 1/32 and third 1/44 chance of winning big. Now assume the generated numbers are really random, and that day or week the machine has given two big prices. Then a third big number combination…

One of the regulations is that each reel is independent. You cannot change any reel outcome based on what the other reels are doing, and you cannot change any reel outcome based on past results.

I'm not 100% sure this is the case but I'm pretty confident.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in identifying addition prone candidates is a problem of ethics. The primary behavior that defines "the gambler state", and many other forms of addiction, is a neurological disorder related to responses of dopamine flooding. This is a physiological condition in the brain that can be observed, validated, and analyzed against trends. --- The addiction In the most simple of terms dopamine is a brain hormone…

>If you know somebody's basic decision making capability is damaged and you intentionally abuse that damage to your self satisfaction Wouldn't this include a lot of advertisement? Simply informing a person that an option exists wouldn't fall under it, but so many advertisements use psychological tricks that take advantage of common flaws in our decision making patterns. >If you know bombarding a person, whether or no…

Agreed, but where do you draw the line? How do you determine when a person has had too much or who are too broken to police themselves? Just to be safe let's poison the well by casting the widest possible net and ensure we capture everybody equally.

Only then can we be sure who are the weakest links... the people most ripe for abuse. I suppose the social problem is that there is little motivation to identify people prone to addiction unless you have motivation to abuse that addiction.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#164
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a mechanical slot machine I can understand the reel thing. But with electronic screens, software making up reels, how do I know that the software does not fool me even more? Take the given example with first slot 1/16, second 1/32 and third 1/44 chance of winning big. Now assume the generated numbers are really random, and that day or week the machine has given two big prices. Then a third big number combination…

Gambling software in casinos is regulated extremely closely.

I've personally seen casino multi game slots that have had either options built in to them via admin panels or grievous enough software issues that mis-wired multi use buttons could allow a player to either lose horribly or continually win/compound upon wins. The coin or credit in/out stat counters would also be affected and be pretty much worthless. These issues just throw ANY concept of magic "odds" chips right out the window.

They're not regulated that closely at all.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#165

To make matters worse, after all this effort to hook players in with a promise of a win just around the corner, it seems that casinos often don't pay up when players win big. Instead, they blame jackpots on malfunctions. Three cases of this from Ars: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/10/1-4-million-jack... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/06/sorry-maam-you-d... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/…

I used to work for a large online casino company and they were really proud of paying out the largest slots jackpot at the time because it attracts players. These companies make so much money they can afford their jackpots when they get the maths right.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3267379/Soldier-...

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#166
post #113

Sadly, the article does disservice to a lot of actual mechanics of the industry. And the amount of hard work that goes on to actually makes these games addictive. It is not for no reason that these are called one-armed bandits. * This industry is highly regulated; but it rarely does help those really in need. If the regulations were very strictly implemented (player wager limits, player time controls, self-regulation…

wouldn't a payoff of 97% means that with a fixed amount of money going in, over time you end up with $0? the payoff is exponential in the wrong direction, right?

The graph for the payouts would look like exponential decay.[1]

Lets say you walk in with 1000 dollars in your pocket.

If the payoff is 97 percent, you would expect the money in your pocket to be .97^n where n is the number of times you took the bet. Each bet reduces the money in your pocket by 3%

While the curve approaches zero, the real limit is the minimum bet of that particular game.

1. http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixD/Appendi...

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#167
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is reasonable when machines list a maximum reward of say 10,000$ and then it says has someone win 2000x that. After all, the players did not make the bet thinking such a payout was possible. IMO, it is a sign the machines are not setup to follow the states rules. But, people are suing for the amount listed not trying to shut the casino down.

>This is reasonable when machines list a maximum reward of say 10,000$ and then it says has someone win 2000x I disagree. It should be trivial to code a machine to not display a number greater then it's maximum bet. Forcing slot makers to honor their machine's output will incentivize them to better bug test their products.

Memory gets randomly corrupted over time. So, you can make things unlikely, but impossible is more difficult than you migh think.

Having shat said, some penalties for this is reasonable. Aka, treat it as a maximum payout.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#168

Video game industry is pushing these tactics to new heights with loot box gamification, even better the target consumers are young, mentally underdeveloped children who are much easier to addict to gambling. China/Japan have regulated these practices for years already (with minimal effectiveness because money wins and publishers have found loopholes), but at least they're trying. Over here we just let companies go to…

My guess is lot of us adults don't really see much of it, cause it's not targeted at us.

I see the regular "come to hopping awesome great casino" ads on tv/radio/internet. My thoughts - thats where people go to lose money.

But these loot boxes, I had to research what this was referring to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loot_box

And after reading how they're used, yeah, thats like years ago when I played and bought Magic The Gathering. Sure, a pack was $2.95, but it was a complete gamble on what rare you got. You didn't buy packs for commons and lands - you bought them for a chance at the chase rare (now ubers).

Maybe its just my age. But I think lowly of "buying" some digital construct in a game that I don't own is completely ridiculous. I get spending time and running up levels, but spending actual hard cash (past a per month cost) is just.. bad.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#169
post #113

Sadly, the article does disservice to a lot of actual mechanics of the industry. And the amount of hard work that goes on to actually makes these games addictive. It is not for no reason that these are called one-armed bandits. * This industry is highly regulated; but it rarely does help those really in need. If the regulations were very strictly implemented (player wager limits, player time controls, self-regulation…

With a mechanical slot machine I can understand the reel thing. But with electronic screens, software making up reels, how do I know that the software does not fool me even more? Take the given example with first slot 1/16, second 1/32 and third 1/44 chance of winning big. Now assume the generated numbers are really random, and that day or week the machine has given two big prices. Then a third big number combination…

From a USA point of view: it's highly regulated at the state level. State gaming commissions hire third-party labs to audit the mathematics and software to make sure everything matches what the manufacturer says it does. Things like changing the odds dynamically is never allowed. The casino may load up a new program with different odds or mechanics, but for any particular game the odds must match what is published to the gaming board.

Now, this doesn't necessarily apply for non-governmental casinos, like ones on indian reservations. They are their own enforcers. Use that information as you will.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#170
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human psychology studies are a tricky thing, where everyone only focuses on data which matches their preconceived notions. I'm sure that some university group has researched the cost of fashion addiction, music addiction, car addiction, holiday addiction etc. yet no-one is talking about the social cost of fashion/collections/other vices people may have. There was a large Casino court case in Australia a couple of mon…

Look you may not want to admit it, but you make your money from praying on and promoting addiction. You are a drug dealer and directly ruin people's lives. Denial has a strong psychological basis, but if you want to look back on your life without massive regrets leave the industry.

I could not agree more; I long ago decided that while I might work on many a terrible corporate project I'd never work for two types of companies; defence or anything gambling-related.
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