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Chrome breaks the Web

tonsky.me

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Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#91

Post by artursapek »

KeitIG wrote: post #9

> they made all top-level event listeners passive by default. They call it “an intervention”. This is my very problem with Chrome/Chromium right now. The Chrome team does assumption on how things "should" be (in a highly subjective way) and breaks the web. Another example: they decided to ignore the value of `autocomplete` attributes on ` ` tags [1], because: > The tricky part here is that somewhere along the journey…

I had a form on the website I administer that closes a user's account permanently. It requires them to input their password and click a button (with a confirmation dialog). Chrome was seeing that password input and auto-filling it, making it very easy for a user to accidentally close their account. It did the same thing for a "change username" form, which also had a password field to confirm the change. Chrome thought it was a login form and would pre-populate the "new username" field with the user's existing username. I tried so hard to make Chrome not do that.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#92

Post by sinxoveretothex »

cmurf wrote: post #62
pluma wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from websites that think it's okay to force you to abide by ridiculous password restrictions (e.g. 6-8 characters, must include digits, upper- and lowercase letters, and special characters but no quotation marks or any known SQL keywords)? The right thing to do is to bring the issue up with whoever is running the website. If they decide not to act on it because they think they know security/UX b…

The market should sort it out is deeply naive wishful thinking. Numerous sites block copy/paste, block password managers from functioning well, still have password rules from the Pleistocene let alone the most recent NIST recommendations. And those companies are worth more today than 10 years ago. So no, it really doesn't get sorted out. To the market, this is a detail it simply doesn't care about.

Because it is a detail virtually nobody cares about.

How insane would the password rules have to be for anyone to travel 1 hour more to go to a different university? How insane for them to stop playing a given video game? To change banking institutions?

I don't have the answer for others, but for me, the answer to all of those is "pretty insane". Except for the banking case, password security is a minor concern (and even then, the system protects us with anti-fraud laws and what not).

In a sense, the market is sorting itself out: it just decided that it doesn't care much about passwords. In fact, if you figure out a way to be profitable while offering twice the interest rate but every time people log in to your bank they have to dance the robot or whatever, you'd probably still have customers.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#93

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

kowdermeister wrote: post #85
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think JavaScript is largely a pox on the web. I hate almost every website I come across today. I just try to ignore all of the bullshit for as long as it takes to consume the actual content, and 95% of the bullshit is possible thanks to JavaScript.

Do you think if JS weren't available advertisers and marketers wouldn't try everything to shake some $ off your pocket? You would be pissed the same way. Also if it weren't JS, would it make a difference if the bullshit is created by lisp, java or erlang?

It it were lisp, java, or erlang I'd still be pissed. The web should not have a client-side scripting language.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#94

Post by ksk »

Klathmon wrote: post #16

To be honest as a user, I'm glad they made this change, even though as a developer it might be a pain in the ass for a day or 2. Scrolling on the mobile web sucked for a long time. Yes, updating the default broke many things, but the scope of that breakage was fairly limited in the grand scheme of things (like the author said, sliders, maps, touch-and-draggable things like lists are the biggest impacted, stuff like "…

How is it good for the user if it breaks the website?

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#95

Post by artursapek »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #93
kowdermeister wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think if JS weren't available advertisers and marketers wouldn't try everything to shake some $ off your pocket? You would be pissed the same way. Also if it weren't JS, would it make a difference if the bullshit is created by lisp, java or erlang?

It it were lisp, java, or erlang I'd still be pissed. The web should not have a client-side scripting language.

You never use or benefit from any web apps that take advantage of javascript?

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#96

Post by kowdermeister »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #93
kowdermeister wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think if JS weren't available advertisers and marketers wouldn't try everything to shake some $ off your pocket? You would be pissed the same way. Also if it weren't JS, would it make a difference if the bullshit is created by lisp, java or erlang?

It it were lisp, java, or erlang I'd still be pissed. The web should not have a client-side scripting language.

That's just laughable. Somebody at some point would have created an alternative browser with client side scripting. Otherwise you end up with static text and video. Wonderful. And plugins! Because you don't allow scripts :)

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#97

Post by icebraining »

cmurf wrote: post #62
pluma wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from websites that think it's okay to force you to abide by ridiculous password restrictions (e.g. 6-8 characters, must include digits, upper- and lowercase letters, and special characters but no quotation marks or any known SQL keywords)? The right thing to do is to bring the issue up with whoever is running the website. If they decide not to act on it because they think they know security/UX b…

The market should sort it out is deeply naive wishful thinking. Numerous sites block copy/paste, block password managers from functioning well, still have password rules from the Pleistocene let alone the most recent NIST recommendations. And those companies are worth more today than 10 years ago. So no, it really doesn't get sorted out. To the market, this is a detail it simply doesn't care about.

Browsers preventing this is also the market sorting it out.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#98

Post by ksk »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #4

I side with Google on this one. IMO we should be breaking JavaScript more often, especially in the name of performance, to make people use less JS and simpler JS on their websites.

You mean like eliminating useless google scripts from wasting your mobile battery/CPU? Somehow, those keep getting complex and wasteful.

Re: Chrome breaks the Web

#99

Post by FussyZeus »

saas_co_de wrote: post #84
KeitIG wrote: post #9

> they made all top-level event listeners passive by default. They call it “an intervention”. This is my very problem with Chrome/Chromium right now. The Chrome team does assumption on how things "should" be (in a highly subjective way) and breaks the web. Another example: they decided to ignore the value of `autocomplete` attributes on ` ` tags [1], because: > The tricky part here is that somewhere along the journey…

> does assumption on how things "should" be (in a highly subjective way) They claim they are making these decisions based on user data which I have no reason to doubt. > and breaks the web. Breaks crap websites that are broken already from performance and usability perspective. I personally think this is exactly what is needed to make the web better as a whole. Individual developers working for individual companies a…

So aside of the fact that you agree with their decisions, how is this at all different from how Internet Explorer's dev team made arbitrary decisions on how things would work in their browser, and in so doing because of their market dominance, influenced how the web grew, looked and functioned for decades to come? And how much technical debt had to be tacked onto every project to address that need (and is to this day)?

I'm all for moving the web forward and addressing stuff like this is a critical part of that, but this is not moving the web forward, this is moving Chrome forward, and in so doing breaking thousands if not millions of sites, and placing the burden of their repair on their developers with no notice and no better solution, just a different hack than the hack they were using.

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