The Rise of Workplace Surveillance • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#41

Post by arkh » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:00 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #34

gambiting wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is a part of UK's ongoing effort to make ubiquitous surveillance a completely normal thing and have the citizens accept it as such. It's not creepy and disturbing, it's actually normal and should be celebrated!

I think this would only be legal in the UK if it was made clear that the communications were subject to monitoring; see https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1066/em... pp58 onwards. I can see it being argued both ways; transcripts of Bloomberg chat were a key part of the LIBOR scandal, for example. And I can also see there being some need to monitor internal chat in case it's used for unacceptable pur…

> And I can also see there being some need to monitor internal chat in case it's used for unacceptable purposes such as sexual harassment.

You don't want simple monitoring. You want data stored in a way it can be checked after a complaint has been filed but only then. Encrypt it with something which requires one or multiple keys so random IT people don't have access to it. Log every access so an audit can be done.

Treat it like medical data should be treated.

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#42

Post by falcolas » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:03 PM UTC

jansho wrote: post #35

nathanaldensr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a chilling effect. Because you probably can't detect who's monitoring you, you must assume all companies do--potentially even the ones that say they don't.

Must the 21st century be characterised by paranoia/vigilance? :(

No, it doesn't have to be that way. But when both corporate government leaders want, and are getting, unparalleled visibility into what we do and what we think; the only practical counter to that is paranoia and vigilance.

There is another alternative - acceptance - something which is much easier on your mind. Acceptance isn't an option for everyone, however.

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#43

Post by falcolas » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:06 PM UTC

retrac98 wrote: post #9

I'd refuse to work anywhere that did this. It puts people on a treadmill they can't get off of.

I think it's safe to assume that every employer does this, to some extent. Sure, some may simply be doing automated scanning of your emails and document access to ensure you're not leaking secrets, but it's a slippery slope that only takes one leader to go to hell.

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#44

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:08 PM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #17

Is this article a joke? "Last year an employee at an IT services company sent a private chat message to a friend at work worried that he had just shared his sexual identity with his manager in a meeting and fearing he’d face career reprisal. Wiretap detected the employee’s concern and alerted a senior company exec who was then able to intervene, talk to the manager and defuse the situation." What. the. fuck. thanks "…

For an obviously paid article / regurgitated press release, they sure do a good job of making this software sound totally unreasonable and ridiculous. I'm an employer and I wouldn't dream of touching anything like this. Not only are employees' personal communications absolutely none of my business but I'd also potentially be leaving myself wide open to a lawsuit with this kind of monitoring.

...And I say that as someone who has had problems with remote workers in the past.

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#45

Post by SJWDisagree111 » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:16 PM UTC

throw2016 wrote: post #16

lotsofpulp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except we’re getting better at quantifying, and the better we are at it, the more we can optimize. Factory workers didn’t use to be measured, but then they were. And now they’re automated. Many aspects of white collar jobs are not impervious to this either. As we move up the chain, we’ll see that even more can be measured and optimized, even for the decision makers. Just make sure you keep climbing! Edit: it also hel…

This is a bit of a straw man. You don't need surveillance technology for this. If a worker is expected to make 10 pieces of an item per hour its easy for managers to verify this. For a knowledge or creative worker it's similarly easy to verify expected performance. This is not new, workers have been measured for performance everywhere since manufacturing and corporate jobs began. If we ignore that for a moment, the p…

Funny how the simple truth summarizes issues like this.

How about we apply it to governance with complete transparency to the electorate. Nope, not going to happen. Because its exploitative and intrusive and will only be applied to the powerless lowest who have no choice.

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#46

Post by SkyPuncher » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:17 PM UTC

Hmm, I don't know that "rise" is a good description. This is just a reminder that if you are using employer owned resources, you should not have an expectation of privacy. It has been this way for decades and is no different now. Perhaps, the only difference is the ability for a system to detect anomalies without human intervention.

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#47

Post by lambersley » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:19 PM UTC

I would quit, without second thought. I have always been of the opinion that you need to hire the right people and fire and bad ones. Workplace surveillance is a trying to fill a gap for BAD managers/mgmt. This crosses so many lines.

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#48

Post by _8j50 » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:20 PM UTC

This. I live this everyday and they talk about it in terms of "insider threat" and "user behavior analytics". Yes , every last thing you do at work is being monitored and analyzed.

You see,I am at a point where I wish it stopped at work. $work these days spies on your off work activities as well. Essentially making you their slave.

If you don't experience this,then maybe your company isn't big enough to afford it(or if it is,please tell me more about this wonderful company that let's you do your job without 24/7 surveillance)

EDIT:Just search for " user behavior analytics".Orwell would be impressed

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#49

Post by matte_black » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:30 PM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #17

Is this article a joke? "Last year an employee at an IT services company sent a private chat message to a friend at work worried that he had just shared his sexual identity with his manager in a meeting and fearing he’d face career reprisal. Wiretap detected the employee’s concern and alerted a senior company exec who was then able to intervene, talk to the manager and defuse the situation." What. the. fuck. thanks "…

Look at this from a company perspective.

If it seems like someone is stealing documents, but you then discover they actually aren't, then no harm done.

If someone actually was stealing documents however, and you don't have the surveillance to realize this, your best salesman might have just took off with a bunch of client information to go work at a competitor. You might never find out, and if you did, you might have no way to prove it.

Workplace surveillance doesn't really have downsides, other than "workplace culture might be affected". However your culture can still be shitty even without surveillance, and just because you don't monitor employees doesn't mean they will become shining examples of company loyalty.

There's plenty of upsides though. Having data on what employees do, and when, and for how long, provides opportunities to discover where improvements can be made, as long as you collect the right data and use it for the right purposes.

Re: The Rise of Workplace Surveillance

#50

Post by jondubois » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 3:38 PM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #17

Is this article a joke? "Last year an employee at an IT services company sent a private chat message to a friend at work worried that he had just shared his sexual identity with his manager in a meeting and fearing he’d face career reprisal. Wiretap detected the employee’s concern and alerted a senior company exec who was then able to intervene, talk to the manager and defuse the situation." What. the. fuck. thanks "…

The scary thing is that as companies get bigger and more powerful and there are fewer small companies who can compete with them, this will only get worse. Surveillance will become the norm; once all the big companies are doing it, employees will be forced to accept it as normal. That's basically the trend.

Soon we'll have slavery again; except instead of your status being determined by your race, it will be determined by how much empathy you have. People who have empathy for others will be slaves of narcissistic, greedy corporate assholes.