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How slot machines are designed to be addictive

theguardian.com

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Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#121

Post by davegardner »

kopos wrote: post #113

Sadly, the article does disservice to a lot of actual mechanics of the industry. And the amount of hard work that goes on to actually makes these games addictive. It is not for no reason that these are called one-armed bandits. * This industry is highly regulated; but it rarely does help those really in need. If the regulations were very strictly implemented (player wager limits, player time controls, self-regulation…

That high percentage payout that you descibe is very misleading. There's an excellent description of this at http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-27/cummings---poker-machi...

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#122

Post by thunfischbrot »

Retric wrote: post #105
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #85

To make matters worse, after all this effort to hook players in with a promise of a win just around the corner, it seems that casinos often don't pay up when players win big. Instead, they blame jackpots on malfunctions. Three cases of this from Ars: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/10/1-4-million-jack... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/06/sorry-maam-you-d... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/…

This is reasonable when machines list a maximum reward of say 10,000$ and then it says has someone win 2000x that. After all, the players did not make the bet thinking such a payout was possible. IMO, it is a sign the machines are not setup to follow the states rules. But, people are suing for the amount listed not trying to shut the casino down.

It would make sense to still pay out the maximum amount listed in that case.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#124

Post by reubeniv »

It misses a few things, noting the time taken to reach zero portion you'll notice the large spike at the beginning, the machines are intentionally generous at the start to hook the player.

That said, the odds are actually fixed and the payout % are required to be displayed on the machines by (UK) law.

Normal pay to play arcade videogames that are't as regulated, and have no age limits also have the same difficulty spike mechanics I'm almost sure, f2p games with micro-transactions definitely have this mechanic.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#125

Post by awjr »

I was lucky. I remember being 18 years old and putting the money for my bus ticket home into a slot machine because "it had to pay out this time". I lost and had a 5 mile walk home. I have avoided the machines ever since. Meeting a programmer of these devices some years ago and him explaining a lot of what they did re-enforced my view to stay away from them.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#126

Post by CPLX »

jerf wrote: post #118
kopos wrote: post #113

Sadly, the article does disservice to a lot of actual mechanics of the industry. And the amount of hard work that goes on to actually makes these games addictive. It is not for no reason that these are called one-armed bandits. * This industry is highly regulated; but it rarely does help those really in need. If the regulations were very strictly implemented (player wager limits, player time controls, self-regulation…

As I write this, I think you have a typo there; 94-97% payout on $1000 is $940-970. (But I am confident it is just a typo.) And you sort of state this, but I'd empasize that's per spin ; for a $1 spin, the casino expects to make 5 cents and give back 95 cents... but then they expect you to put those 95 cents right back in with high probability, meaning that you can now expect .9025 of the original dollar, which again…

The "right" way to gamble is to decide how much fun gambling is and how much it's worth to you and then spend that amount. Like for example I could go skydiving for $350 or play a few hours of blackjack and poker for that much and decide to choose the latter. So you spend that much to get the expected result.

Sometimes you bust out quickly, sometimes you make money, just like sometimes you see a bad movie or concert for full price. But as long as the calculation is actually utility all is well. Of course in practice that's hard to do, our brains aren't quite wired for it.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#127

Post by joezydeco »

paulsutter wrote: post #43
joezydeco wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to remember this was invented in 1982. Using RNGs, stepper motors, and mapped tables was certainly enough for a patent in that era.

I used to program in 1982 and these things were completely obvious at that time. However, you can patent almost anything, both then and today. Patents are more of a process than a science.

You could have made a fortune selling this to a slot manufacturer in 1982. So why didn't you?

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#128

Post by wycy »

Retric wrote: post #105
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #85

To make matters worse, after all this effort to hook players in with a promise of a win just around the corner, it seems that casinos often don't pay up when players win big. Instead, they blame jackpots on malfunctions. Three cases of this from Ars: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/10/1-4-million-jack... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/06/sorry-maam-you-d... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/…

This is reasonable when machines list a maximum reward of say 10,000$ and then it says has someone win 2000x that. After all, the players did not make the bet thinking such a payout was possible. IMO, it is a sign the machines are not setup to follow the states rules. But, people are suing for the amount listed not trying to shut the casino down.

If malfunction voids all pays and plays, and if the casino can legally not pay what the machine says it should, then it should also be on the casino to track down every single person who's ever put money into that machine and give them a full refund. If a machine has the kind of coding glitch that could cause this sort of payout, who's to say it hasn't been stealing from players all along?

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#129

Post by gotrecruit »

wycy wrote: post #128
Retric wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is reasonable when machines list a maximum reward of say 10,000$ and then it says has someone win 2000x that. After all, the players did not make the bet thinking such a payout was possible. IMO, it is a sign the machines are not setup to follow the states rules. But, people are suing for the amount listed not trying to shut the casino down.

If malfunction voids all pays and plays, and if the casino can legally not pay what the machine says it should, then it should also be on the casino to track down every single person who's ever put money into that machine and give them a full refund. If a machine has the kind of coding glitch that could cause this sort of payout, who's to say it hasn't been stealing from players all along?

i agree in principle with your argument, but i imagine the only way to properly track historical players of that machine is if they kept some sort of ledger or database on every single user of the machine, which probably means they'd need to store your personal information somewhere indefinitely. not sure too many gamblers would be cool with that.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#130

Post by matwood »

gotrecruit wrote: post #129
wycy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If malfunction voids all pays and plays, and if the casino can legally not pay what the machine says it should, then it should also be on the casino to track down every single person who's ever put money into that machine and give them a full refund. If a machine has the kind of coding glitch that could cause this sort of payout, who's to say it hasn't been stealing from players all along?

i agree in principle with your argument, but i imagine the only way to properly track historical players of that machine is if they kept some sort of ledger or database on every single user of the machine, which probably means they'd need to store your personal information somewhere indefinitely. not sure too many gamblers would be cool with that.

Players who spend a lot of money already let the casino track them on purpose so they can get perks.
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