Hmmmm. But yet she moved to America.
I wonder why?
Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
61–70 of 72 posts
Re: Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course not. You still own whatever you own, and can still sell it, destroy it, modify it, whatever. You do pay tax on owning it, in a system that taxes wealth, but that does not mean someone else owns it. Calling it rent and calling the state the true owner doesn't really make sense--you're conflating two separate ideas, I think, to play on people's emotions ("oh noes, the state owns everything!"). It's not true o…
> You still own whatever you own Not if you don't pay the rent. > and can still sell it, destroy it, modify it, whatever And when you sell it, you're basically selling a rental agreement. > Calling it rent and calling the state the true owner doesn't really make sense--you're conflating two separate ideas, I think, to play on people's emotions ("oh noes, the state owns everything!"). It's not true or accurate, though…
You do "actually" own your property, even if you have to pay a tax on it.
I think you're playing word games, because you're using an idiosyncratic definition of ownership and rent that no one else (except maybe in libertarian circles) uses.
I'm not going to play along with those sorts of word games, so I will leave you to your unique definitions.
Re: Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
I figured it out as being pretty close between San Francisco and the UK, especially once you include healthcare costs on the US side.
numbers plz
Sure, for San Francisco according to https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-income-tax-rate-on-a-100k-... it's 34K USD of state and federal income tax on 100K, so you pay ~34%, plus healthcare costs.
In the UK, 100K USD is ~75K GBP, and according to the excellent tax calculator here https://listentotaxman.com/76467? you pay ~32% if you don't count Employers NI (which no-one would ordinarily in discussion, and really if I am to make that adjustment I should really ensure the grossed up amount was 76K, but it will make at most a few percentage point of difference), and if you do it's ~39%.
It's quite possible I'm missing some taxation or complexity on the US side (FICA?); I'm UK resident not US resident. The UK side is correct.
Other notable tax differences that come to mind include:
* No worldwide income tax in the UK
* Capital gains is a single rate in the UK
* No property tax (we have Council Tax instead, and the average for a Band D property in England is £1,484/year)
Re: Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
#64"Foreigners tend to view Nordic countries as "these socialist nanny states where everybody has a collectivist mindset," Partanen said. But "in fact a lot of these services really support everybody's independence."" I pay a ton of taxes in the U.S. I don't get how Finland warrants an accusation of a collectivist mindset, while America takes and redistributes just as much money. Is it because spending on defense, inste…
In Norway, you pay an annual tax on basically everything you own (update: yes, everything you own , not everything you earn that year ) past the first ~$180k. I don't really care what sort of "independence" this supports for somebody, I'm not going to live somewhere that makes you rent everything from the state, after paying exorbitant taxes to "buy" it. update: corrected the cutoff figure with new exchange rates and…
Speaking as a Norwegian, the wealth tax is not really that much of an issue. It just not that burdensome. Its less than one per cent of your net worth above $ 180 k. Net worth, so you can subtract any debts such as your mortgage, student loans, etc first. And property only counts for 1/4 its actual value.
Its just not going to impact on people. Anyone with enough net assets to make it relevant is going to consider the amount neglible.
According to the Norwegian statistics authority, the average gross household worth is 3.4 million NKr ( 500 000 $ depending on exchange rate.) 2/3s are in property. Net after debts is 2.1 million, so you got 2.2 million in property and 1.3 million in debt.
That means your taxable worth for this tax is equal to (2.1 million + 2.2 million/4) - 1.3 million - 1.5 million. Which is a negative 200 000. Converted to dollars, that means Norways Joe Average household with a gross worth of $ 485 000, and a net worth of $ 300 000 can still add 28 000 $ to his assets before the tax starts to kick in. Provided he does not take on more debts there. Property is reeeeal good that way since you can subtract your full mortgage. While only counting 1/4 the value of the property and the interest is deductible on your income tax.
Joe Average also makes 70 k $ and pays 25 % tax.
Re: Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Norway, you pay an annual tax on basically everything you own (update: yes, everything you own , not everything you earn that year ) past the first ~$180k. I don't really care what sort of "independence" this supports for somebody, I'm not going to live somewhere that makes you rent everything from the state, after paying exorbitant taxes to "buy" it. update: corrected the cutoff figure with new exchange rates and…
Speaking as a Norwegian, the wealth tax is not really that much of an issue. It just not that burdensome. Its less than one per cent of your net worth above $ 180 k. Net worth, so you can subtract any debts such as your mortgage, student loans, etc first. And property only counts for 1/4 its actual value. Its just not going to impact on people. Anyone with enough net assets to make it relevant is going to consider th…
PS Exchange rate 10 year average used.
Re: Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
If what happens to your income past the first $100k is a major concern for you, you are very much in the minority in the US, as the median family income in the US is about $60k[1], and most Americans have less than $1k in savings.[2] Sure, rich people have little to gain by having a great social safety net, as they can just rely on their own money for all of that. But for the vast majority of Americans, it matters. A…
Not income, static assets. That is, if you own more than about 40 sqft (sic) of apartment space outside of a city centre, you must pay a wealth tax on it. It's sad that this is the top response, because you have completely misunderstood what I said, and responded with something unrelated.
Probably not. It only counts for 1/4 its value, and you get to subtract your mortgage, so its pulling your average net worth _down_ until your mortgage gets paid down to less than 1/4 the value of your property.
Re: Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
#67> "The choices Nordic countries have made have little to do with altruism or kinship," Partanen wrote for The Atlantic in 2016. "This is what Americans fail to understand: My taxes in Finland were used to pay for top-notch services for me." This is an odd statement to me. Any wealth redistribution system has both "givers" and "receivers". What do the "givers" in Nordic countries actually think? Do the the "givers" sh…
Pretty sure I would count as a "Giver" and a fairly average one.
There are knock-on effects of living in a system with less desperation such as lower crime rates, better infrastructure, and more opportunity which is enjoyed by everyone. The "givers" in your example would in all likelihood not have been givers their entire life. They will have been educated at a university, gotten their first job when someone was off for a year on maternity leave, etc.
Re: Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
The poster was talking about what "you own". It's really easy to have more than $100k in assets. That's basically anybody who owns a home.
The median net worth of Americans is $97k. [1] As for owning homes, many Americans don't own their home but rent. [1] - http://www.newstrategist.com/median-net-worth-97300-in-2016/
The median net household worth in Norway is $ 300 000.
Re: Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
#69> "The choices Nordic countries have made have little to do with altruism or kinship," Partanen wrote for The Atlantic in 2016. "This is what Americans fail to understand: My taxes in Finland were used to pay for top-notch services for me." This is an odd statement to me. Any wealth redistribution system has both "givers" and "receivers". What do the "givers" in Nordic countries actually think? Do the the "givers" sh…
Pretty sure I would count as a "Giver" and a fairly average one. There are knock-on effects of living in a system with less desperation such as lower crime rates, better infrastructure, and more opportunity which is enjoyed by everyone. The "givers" in your example would in all likelihood not have been givers their entire life. They will have been educated at a university, gotten their first job when someone was off…
Thanks your sharing your experience. That's a great point, about people being givers and receivers at different points in their life. I hadn't heard that perspective.
Re: Finnish-born journalist: Americans make crucial mistake in how they look at life
#70> "The choices Nordic countries have made have little to do with altruism or kinship," Partanen wrote for The Atlantic in 2016. "This is what Americans fail to understand: My taxes in Finland were used to pay for top-notch services for me." This is an odd statement to me. Any wealth redistribution system has both "givers" and "receivers". What do the "givers" in Nordic countries actually think? Do the the "givers" sh…
As a Nordic citizen, I'm torn between believing that everyone, citizen or not, should have the same rights to healthcare, an education, transport, telecommunication and so on and that by enforcing this system we have effectively cut off the possibility of private services within those fields that some may need or prefer, specifically healthcare to get appointments at their own leisure rather than being assigned one t…
Thank you. I can definitely understand that. It's nice that we live in a world with different systems, and can see the pros/cons and learn from each other.