Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#11

Post by junklight » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 7:27 AM UTC

What I don't get is why a company like Microsoft - rich and no longer in the lead doesn't setup a couple of well funded skunk works companies. Drop the baggage (ie don't force them to use windows and allow a new culture to emerge) and give each one a target - touch computing or something else and let 'em go.

Microsoft has all the pieces - money , good engineers, marketing etc. but it's not working. They have the financial space to do something radical and disruptive to themselves and jump on that if it pans out.

Either that or just get some strong with real vision at the helm who is capable of turning it around.

Perhaps its much the same thing

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#12

Post by todayiamme » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 7:32 AM UTC

This is slightly off topic, but Ballmer has to be crazy to overlook the strengths they have. Microsoft owns Amalga (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Amalga) which is an information retrieval tool for hospitals that ER doctors to reduce the time spent on searching for information.

Now let's take a step back and see what it is.

It's a tool which has the ability to manage 40 TB of data in real time and provide more than 12000 pieces of data for each patient. Can you imagine how rich a resource that is?

Let's say that microsoft invests considerably in a centralized server and continuously mines the data coming in and strips patient data live to the bare minimum the ER doctor needs to see. Moreover, what if they see trends in what is happening in an entire city, before people even realize it and alert the authorities to prepare before some wave hits. Imagine if they could work with people to reduce costs by mining this truckloads of data in real time. Why are they aping Apple? Why?

Microsoft had IBM's "A Smarter Planet" initiative before the latter even dreamed of it, but did they even know about it?

It's the proverbial story; don't look where you can't go or you'll miss the riches below. They have some absolutely amazing gems locked up in the research labs that can change entire industries if leveraged in the right way. Moreover, Microsoft has the might to do it.

They don't need an iPad killer they need a Microsoft Executive Killer(tm).

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#13

Post by pavs » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 8:12 AM UTC

junklight wrote: post #11

What I don't get is why a company like Microsoft - rich and no longer in the lead doesn't setup a couple of well funded skunk works companies. Drop the baggage (ie don't force them to use windows and allow a new culture to emerge) and give each one a target - touch computing or something else and let 'em go. Microsoft has all the pieces - money , good engineers, marketing etc. but it's not working. They have the fina…

> Microsoft has all the pieces - money , good engineers, marketing etc.

They don't have the most important thing. Leadership. Everything about Ballmer reminds me of a salesperson who is trying over-hype a product in to selling it to you. With very little knowledge as to what the product actually does.

Like Ballmer, Steve Jobs is also not a tech nerd (in the sense that they are not developers/programmers or engineers), but Steve always seems to have a more in-depth knowledge about Apple products and knows it inside out.

On the other hand the top three guys at Google are hackers.

Leadership matters.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#14

Post by junklight » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 8:26 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #13

junklight wrote: post #11

What I don't get is why a company like Microsoft - rich and no longer in the lead doesn't setup a couple of well funded skunk works companies. Drop the baggage (ie don't force them to use windows and allow a new culture to emerge) and give each one a target - touch computing or something else and let 'em go. Microsoft has all the pieces - money , good engineers, marketing etc. but it's not working. They have the fina…

> Microsoft has all the pieces - money , good engineers, marketing etc. They don't have the most important thing. Leadership. Everything about Ballmer reminds me of a salesperson who is trying over-hype a product in to selling it to you. With very little knowledge as to what the product actually does. Like Ballmer, Steve Jobs is also not a tech nerd (in the sense that they are not developers/programmers or engineers)…

heh heh - that was what I was trying to say. I think I need more coffee this morning....

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#15

Post by berntb » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 9:34 AM UTC

rbritton wrote: post #7

jsz0 wrote: post #3

The best thing Microsoft could do at this point is put together a Metro style touch-centric UI that is the default for Windows tablets. Give developers a quick & dirty way to port their existing applications to a touch-centric UI. It wouldn't be the most elegant solution but it would be closer to what people seem to want in a tablet.

The best thing Microsoft could do is to innovate and do something no one's done. Everything they've done of late is in markets where someone has already done very well in, and they've done such a half-assed job of it that it's a guaranteed fail. Think what you want of Apple, but their products have been things largely not done before. Microsoft is copying the wrong half -- the product ideas themselves -- they should…

>>The best thing Microsoft could do is to innovate and do something no one's done. Everything they've done of late is in markets where someone has already done very well in

But that is what Microsoft has done historically.

The old solution was to use profits from already owned market segments to invest much more in other market segments, until they own those too.

I don't know either why it stopped working.

Could the problem be a lack of a monopoly leverage? They can't threaten hardware/software makers anymore?

Or maybe the problem is just leadership, as others wrote?

Or maybe they have just screwed over too many people (to paraphrase an old Netscape executive, too many people has woken up with a bloody computer monitors in bed)?

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#16

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 10:25 AM UTC

berntb wrote: post #15

rbritton wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing Microsoft could do is to innovate and do something no one's done. Everything they've done of late is in markets where someone has already done very well in, and they've done such a half-assed job of it that it's a guaranteed fail. Think what you want of Apple, but their products have been things largely not done before. Microsoft is copying the wrong half -- the product ideas themselves -- they should…

>>The best thing Microsoft could do is to innovate and do something no one's done. Everything they've done of late is in markets where someone has already done very well in But that is what Microsoft has done historically. The old solution was to use profits from already owned market segments to invest much more in other market segments, until they own those too. I don't know either why it stopped working. Could the…

> I don't know either why it stopped working.

They no longer can use one monopoly to create another. That's what landed them in trouble in the US and in the EU. Their historical model of growth is no longer possible.

I would suspect they rely too much on focus groups to drive product development. There is only so much consumers can tell you about what they need. You can't just round up a bunch of consumers and ask them what will be the Next Big Thing. Well... You can, but you will end up with a Kin or a Zune in your hand.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#17

Post by wazoox » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 10:56 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #13

junklight wrote: post #11

What I don't get is why a company like Microsoft - rich and no longer in the lead doesn't setup a couple of well funded skunk works companies. Drop the baggage (ie don't force them to use windows and allow a new culture to emerge) and give each one a target - touch computing or something else and let 'em go. Microsoft has all the pieces - money , good engineers, marketing etc. but it's not working. They have the fina…

> Microsoft has all the pieces - money , good engineers, marketing etc. They don't have the most important thing. Leadership. Everything about Ballmer reminds me of a salesperson who is trying over-hype a product in to selling it to you. With very little knowledge as to what the product actually does. Like Ballmer, Steve Jobs is also not a tech nerd (in the sense that they are not developers/programmers or engineers)…

> Like Ballmer, Steve Jobs is also not a tech nerd

Though Jobs isn't a certified engineer, he did wrote code, soldered chips on motherboards, etc. He certainly knows what parts a computer is made of, how software works, etc.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#18

Post by wazoox » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 11:07 AM UTC

rbritton wrote: post #7

jsz0 wrote: post #3

The best thing Microsoft could do at this point is put together a Metro style touch-centric UI that is the default for Windows tablets. Give developers a quick & dirty way to port their existing applications to a touch-centric UI. It wouldn't be the most elegant solution but it would be closer to what people seem to want in a tablet.

The best thing Microsoft could do is to innovate and do something no one's done. Everything they've done of late is in markets where someone has already done very well in, and they've done such a half-assed job of it that it's a guaranteed fail. Think what you want of Apple, but their products have been things largely not done before. Microsoft is copying the wrong half -- the product ideas themselves -- they should…

> The best thing Microsoft could do is to innovate and do something no one's done.

The last time they did so was when Allen and Gates decided there must be a market for BASIC on Altair and microcomputers in general. Maybe Traf-o-matic was an innovation, too. However none of their significant products afterwards was anything new :

  * common programming languages for different systems
  * MS-DOS, built from a borrowed clone of CP/M
  * Xenix, an AT&T licensed Unix
  * Windows, a pale copy of existing GUIs of the time
  * Word, a Wordstar rip-off
  * Multiplan, a VisiCalc rip-off
  * Excel, a Lotus 1-2-3 rip-off
  
  * C# and .Net, an enhanced java

The list goes on and on. I really can't see any innovating product ever coming from Microsoft (there are excellent products, but these are incremental enhancements). Apple, on the contrary, has a long history of earth-shaking innovations (brought to the masses the personal computer, the GUI, the graphic printer, the IDE, the mp3 player, the touchscreen devices...) . It's simply not comparable.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#19

Post by berntb » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 11:27 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #16

berntb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The best thing Microsoft could do is to innovate and do something no one's done. Everything they've done of late is in markets where someone has already done very well in But that is what Microsoft has done historically. The old solution was to use profits from already owned market segments to invest much more in other market segments, until they own those too. I don't know either why it stopped working. Could the…

> I don't know either why it stopped working. They no longer can use one monopoly to create another. That's what landed them in trouble in the US and in the EU. Their historical model of growth is no longer possible. I would suspect they rely too much on focus groups to drive product development. There is only so much consumers can tell you about what they need. You can't just round up a bunch of consumers and ask th…

>>They no longer can use one monopoly to create another.

I tried to write that in the paragraph starting with: "Could the problem be a lack of a monopoly leverage?". :-)

>>That's what landed them in trouble in the US and in the EU.

I wonder if that is the reason. They kept ignoring the monopoly laws and paid fines ten years later, when they courts had managed to get to the (then ancient) transgression.

>>I would suspect they rely too much on focus groups to drive product development.

Hmm.. a point which seems to fit well.

Re: Microsoft and Ballmer not getting the iPad

#20

Post by Herring » Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 11:49 AM UTC

junklight wrote: post #11

What I don't get is why a company like Microsoft - rich and no longer in the lead doesn't setup a couple of well funded skunk works companies. Drop the baggage (ie don't force them to use windows and allow a new culture to emerge) and give each one a target - touch computing or something else and let 'em go. Microsoft has all the pieces - money , good engineers, marketing etc. but it's not working. They have the fina…

They're probably getting way too much money to risk killing windows. The last thing they want is a viable alternative.