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UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

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Re: UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

#21

Post by coliveira »

WalterBright wrote: post #4
jacquesm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a strong underlying point to this though, pretty much predicted by RMS and it so far seems to be going in that direction. The last revision of the GPL tried to address some of the IP related consequences but there is only so much that can be done from that angle. Large piles tend to get larger, that's the major issue.

Except if it's Sears, RCA, IBM, Kodak, etc.

This is irrelevant when the problem we are considering is concentration of the market forces. Of course in this process many large firms will be swallowed by even larger companies. Market concentration doesn't guarantee that large companies will continue to exist, only that the remaining ones will own most everything.

Re: UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

#22

Post by WalterBright »

sien wrote: post #15
felipeko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Facebook was growing there was a fear on Google that Facebook would lead to Google's irrelevance. Google+ was a very clear response to that. Still, Google couldn't buy Facebook and couldn't kill it. Microsoft couldn't kill/buy Google, Walmart can't kill/buy Amazon. Microsoft and Walmart are still big, but not that powerful anymore. So while i think they can buy their would be destroyers, that is actually very ha…

And IBM didn't get to buy MS. Where is Commodore now? DEC? SGI? Intergraph? From 1955 to 2016 only 12% of firms remain in the Fortune 500. It's not clear that this sort of churn isn't still happening: http://www.aei.org/publication/fortune-500-firms-1955-v-2016... However, it's also worth noting that no churn would take a long time to show up.

> From 1955 to 2016 only 12% of firms remain in the Fortune 500.

I used to have a chart which showed the top 10 corporations by market cap, decade by decade. You didn't have to go very far back before you didn't even recognize the company names.

I'm old enough to remember all the fear IBM struck into the hearts of everyone in the computer biz in the 1980s, fear that seems so laughable now it's hard to even remember it.

Same thing in the 1990s, but with Microsoft.

Other companies that inspired fear and certainty they'd take over the world - HP, AT&T, RCA. RCA? Anybody even recall that RCA was the name of a company, and not just the plug ends on your stereo equipment?

Anyone remember that old WKRP episode where they were making fun of the fear of "The Phone Company", i.e. AT&T?

There's a good reason for the decline of large corporations - they get too bureaucratic and complicated to manage efficiently. They tend to accumulate too much entrenched interest in obsolete models and technology. I.e. the world passes them by.

Re: UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

#23

Post by WalterBright »

jordanb wrote: post #17
WalterBright wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except if it's Sears, RCA, IBM, Kodak, etc.

What you see with the collapse of these companies is more concentration of market power, not less.

Please explain this with Kodak.

Re: UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

#24

Post by WalterBright »

jacquesm wrote: post #13
WalterBright wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except if it's Sears, RCA, IBM, Kodak, etc.

Yes, but patent portfolios are a sought after asset in liquidations or acquisitions of failing giants.

Patents expire.

Re: UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

#25

Post by Mz »

jordanb wrote: post #17
WalterBright wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except if it's Sears, RCA, IBM, Kodak, etc.

What you see with the collapse of these companies is more concentration of market power, not less.

Can you elaborate?

Re: UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

#26

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Mz wrote: post #25
jordanb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you see with the collapse of these companies is more concentration of market power, not less.

Can you elaborate?

Suppose there are three large companies that dominate an industry. One of them fails. Now there are two large companies that dominate the industry.

Re: UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

#27

Post by amigoingtodie »

WalterBright wrote: post #19
nerdponx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of which were blatantly mismanaged. More importantly, it's not as though the collapse of these piles suddenly led to a redistribution of the wealth they amassed...

> All of which were blatantly mismanaged It's easy to be a monday morning quarterback about management. Even so, no company is immune from blatant mismanagement. It's not a no-brainer to effectively manage a large corporation, not remotely. For an example, look at Apple in the 1990s. A series of CEOs were all unable to get the company moving again, until Jobs was asked to return. (And those CEOs were all experienced…

Experienced in selling soda.

Re: UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

#28

Post by amigoingtodie »

WalterBright wrote: post #22
sien wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And IBM didn't get to buy MS. Where is Commodore now? DEC? SGI? Intergraph? From 1955 to 2016 only 12% of firms remain in the Fortune 500. It's not clear that this sort of churn isn't still happening: http://www.aei.org/publication/fortune-500-firms-1955-v-2016... However, it's also worth noting that no churn would take a long time to show up.

> From 1955 to 2016 only 12% of firms remain in the Fortune 500. I used to have a chart which showed the top 10 corporations by market cap, decade by decade. You didn't have to go very far back before you didn't even recognize the company names. I'm old enough to remember all the fear IBM struck into the hearts of everyone in the computer biz in the 1980s, fear that seems so laughable now it's hard to even remember i…

General Electric?

Re: UN Study Warns: Growing Economic Concentration Leads to “Rentier Capitalism”

#30

Post by cyphereal »

The article is very hand-wavy about the core rent seeking argument. There is much discussion about factors such as productivity improvements concentration of market power and mergers and acquisitions.

From TFA: "says Blankenburg, “the data show very clearly that the means used to obtain these profits cannot be reduced to the use of productive technologies.” Other mechanisms, such as lobbying or mergers and acquisitions, the authors find, have played a significant role in enhancing the market power of dominant companies. “You can show quite clearly how surplus profits increase with mergers and acquisitions, or how changes in regulation that favor control over intellectual property rights for large corporations have a pretty-instant impact on the profit performance of those companies,"

That's the sum total of the rent seeking argument. There is nothing in there demonstrating use of IP to extract rent (which, arguably isn't even rent seeking behaviour, but for the sake of argument may be granted here). My intuition is that profit extraction due to IP for the very large companies is most obvious in pharmaceuticals, but that's just my guess?

There are a few interesting points in this article, but it's weakly written.

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