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Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

nytimes.com

151–160 of 204 posts

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#151

Senate Intelligence Committee has expressed concerns that Jack Dorsey is favoring the Russian government over the United States government. Senator Tom Cotton, CIA Director John Brennan, transcript from Senate Intelligence Committee hearings on June 2016: https://www.cotton.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=414 SENATOR COTTON: I want to discuss cooperation with our Intelligence Community from Silicon Valley, specificall…

Merely refusing to cooperate with the CIA is "favoring the Russian government"? That seems like a dangerous idea.

The fully cooperating with RT is the what favors the Russian government.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with it is unfolding right before your eyes. Russia is actively using the platform that we now know it funded to sow chaos in the United States. Have you read the summaries of the ads they posted during the election cycle? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/russia-2016-e... The played each side off of the other and, in some cases, even encouraged each side to violently engage the other: http:/…

As someone who values free speech I can’t say I’m concerned with the content of advertising. Just don’t pay attention to it if it bothers you.

This is an incredibly naive point of view.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@postramus - Yes I am. Because it's not.

Can you clarify something? You seem to be arguing two points without differentiating them clearly. One point is that it should be obvious where the money came from (etc); the other point is that that origin should not be cause for concern. Is that accurate? If so I would agree with you on the first point but not the second: the same logic that eg allows one to make the inferences in the first point would also lead on…

The first point I am trying to make is that it should've been obvious, and that aside from giving an actual name to the entity through which cash went from Kremlin to Milner, the NYTimes is not news. If you were concerned then, good. If you were not concerned then, there's no reason to be concerned now, as no new facts came to light through this NYT article.

On the second point: the source of the money should not be cause of concern if it's "just money."

If it's money and a very strong suggestion that you partner with a (obvious, even if explicitly unstated) foreign, state-controlled entity, then it's a cause for concern. If it's just money, and then when you want to partner with a foreign, state-controlled entity, that same money gives you an introduction to the foreign, state-controlled entity, then it's not a cause for concern, because that's the point of business relationships and investments.

The question of Russian influence is really a separate question, in my mind, and I think that's what bugs me about this entire thing the most. The implication somewhere here is that the leaders of Facebook and Twitter, and other startups that take Milner money were somehow duped, and allowed Russia to walk free in their systems and influence the election. I will be very surprised if that's true; Zuckerberg and Dorsey are too smart for that.

What seems obvious to me is that the systems they created are giant, targeted megaphones, by design. They were successfully used by the Obama campaign, and everyone was very happy for democracy then. Then a foreign state decided that they were going to give Trump help on these megaphones, and now everyone is very unhappy for democracy. Would we have this much hand-wringing if we discovered that Saudi Arabia was helping Hilary?

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#154
post #138
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice false equivalence argument, but I'm afraid it's going to fall on deaf ears. Funny how many Russian apologists are here all of a sudden.

> Russian apologists Because pointing out the obvious ignorance, hypocrisy and double-speak of US and western people in general is the same as being a "Russian apologist". Were you ever taught logic?

Personal attacks aren't allowed on HN. We ban accounts that do that, so please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't comment like this, regardless of how wrong or illogical someone else may be.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tied to, and acting at the behest of, are night and day. One allows you to presume they're acting in their own financial interests, by and large, just like every other investor. The other merits caution. Your larger point, that we should have been more cautious, stands. We should have figured this out. But dollars danced, and even the best of us started rationalizing [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143…

True, and a fine line which is hard to judge from the seats we sit in. But I agree that a US company cannot be associated with the Kremlin or Beijing or Riad in 2017 without consequences. Maybe in 2023. I just don't want to see a McCarthy witch hunt when a lot of the money floating in Wallstreet and the Valley is of dubious origin. I would equally oppose taking money from one of the CIA VC firms, even that one where…

> I would equally oppose taking money from one of the CIA VC firms, even that one where Dan Geer works.

Facebook's advisor on its $19B acquisition of Whatsapp was a "privately held boutique investment bank" called Allen & Company, which at the time was led (maybe it still is, it doesn't show up at all on his personal wiki page) by former CIA director George Tenet. Not 6-months had passed since this acquisition and Putin started talking in the media about how the Internet is controlled by the US 3-letter agencies. Shortly after that his cronies fully took control of VKontakte.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#156

Holy crap. DST Global and its affiliates have (or had in formative years) significant stakes in Facebook, Twitter, Spotify, ZocDoc, Planet Lab, Xiaomi, Stripe, Alibaba, WhatsApp and Airbnb [1]. Milner has close ties to Y Combinator [2]. It's been a deal-terms setting, behind-the-kimono peeking major investor for a decade. This is immensely scary. We've utterly failed, as an industry, to self regulate. [1] https://en.…

Yes this is presented for your consumption to be viewed as a pejorative, but think for yourself, what is the problem here?

Russians are single handedly contributing to economic growth worldwide, better than the US counterparts who brag about it.

The US has found itself in a position where it wishes to tell people which transactions are good and which transactions can't contribute to the financial ecosystem, in order to deter behaviors it doesn't like.

This article is showing how that these fictional limitations on fungibility are futile and have been a colossal waste of US and US partner's resources and public money, perpetuated by excessive pride, unilateral claims on morality, and rampant unique paranoia against the Russian state for historical reasons which are irrelevant.

OH MY GOD This was all part of a ploy to undermine democracy! Orrrr make amazing returns helping fueling an unprecedented growth of the tech sector since the US government did the same thing funding the Fairchilds.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#157
post #136
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to the "blood money" invested by the US govt. in technology companies? Do you also have problems with Twitter, Google and Facebook getting money from the US govt.? Let's not forget, the US govt., both Republicans and Democrats, have directly or indirectly killed millions of people in the last decade... I don't see you complaining about that "blood money" here or anywhere, though.

Nice false equivalence argument, but I'm afraid it's going to fall on deaf ears. Funny how many Russian apologists are here all of a sudden.

> Funny how many Russian apologists

This breaks the HN guidelines in two major ways: it's a personal attack and it's an insinuation of astroturfing or shillage without evidence. Those are poison to substantive discussion and we ban accounts that do them, so please follow https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't comment like this again.

The rest of the internet may be insane right now but that doesn't mean we have to imitate it here.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this surprising? When Milner came virtually out of the blue (or red, as the case may be) a few years ago, it seemed obvious that he was a conduit/laundry for oligarch cash at least. I even remember telling someone at the time that if we were chosen for YC, we didn't want Milner's dirty money. The additional Kremlin state ties seem only an additional technicality. (I mean the formalized acknowledgement of what…

This doesn't make sense. What makes money 'dirty'? What about banks like Goldman Sachs? Is their money 'clean'? What about the Saudi and UAE investment funds? How does one decide what is 'dirty' and 'clean' money and identify it?

The only thing that makes money dirty is the US's overinflated idea of whitelisting transactions to deter behaviors they don't like

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#159

I’m having a very hard time understanding why anyone would be upset by the Russian government making technology positive investments. Especially technologists! I wish more money was deployed into software development. Russia seems to be a positive influence here.

Russia hasn't been a positive influence on anything since Shostakovich and Yuri Gagarin.

Nationalistic attacks are some of the ugliest things people post here. Regardless of nation, it's not ok, so please don't do it again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#160
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that most people would probably not say something so xenophobic about any other country on a public forum, but Russia is fair game. Don't believe me? Substitute $country in the above and see if it sounds more or less grating.

> It's interesting that most people would probably not say something so xenophobic about any other country on a public forum I've routinely seen the almost exact same thing, except with a much longer timeline. about the entirety of the Arab world, on public forums.

And China, and sometimes Japan.

Hell... and America, by Americans.

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