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Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

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Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #38
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point is, you (and your CEO) know Tencent is an arm of the Chinese government. Passive state-backed investors are fine. If a random Board member told your CEO "let's get an NDA with so and so and then give them such and such sensitive data; it may help us break into a new market," your CEO may be inclined to take the advice. If Tencent made that request, most CEOs (and Boards) would do more digging. There are Boards,…

To anyone that has kept track of geopolitical news across the last 20 years, it is obvious that no one in Russia gets rich without the approval of Kremlin. The fact that Yuri Milner is walking the earth is sufficient evidence that he's friendly with the Kremlin. No one who managed to rise to the rank of CEO would misunderstand the unstated implication that a request from an associate of Yuri Milner is a request that…

> The fact that Yuri Milner is walking the earth is sufficient evidence that he's friendly with the Kremlin

You're moving goalposts. Nobody is worried about someone being friendly with the Kremlin. Acting at their behest, however, is new and troubling.

(I agree that this should have been obvious. Unfortunately, when dollars start dancing people tend to rationalize.)

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#42

Post by malvosenior »

Asparagirl wrote: post #39
malvosenior wrote: post #36

I’m having a very hard time understanding why anyone would be upset by the Russian government making technology positive investments. Especially technologists! I wish more money was deployed into software development. Russia seems to be a positive influence here.

Russia hasn't been a positive influence on anything since Shostakovich and Yuri Gagarin.

I know good developers that had meaning financial gain in some if the DST transactions listed in the OP. It was positive for them and our industry in a very real way.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#43

Post by throwawaysml »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #32
throwawaysml wrote: post #27

Is the difference to Chinese and Saudi money floating in the valley that we expect violent repercussions for anyone that opposes some aspect of the financiers' wishes? Or is it just that Russia is the most outspoken big nation that takes a different stance on critical issues where, say, Saudi and DC are in agreement. And that this is a danger to post-WW2 US influence? Genuinely curious. Back when Milner invested in F…

When Saudis, Chinese or Russian individuals invest, they do so openly. When Uber took Saudi state money, they knew why the Saudis were buying. I think this sort of state-backed investing is fine. The issue here is companies didn't treat Milner et al as an extension of the Russian state. They treated them as private individuals who made money in Russia. The difference is night and day. The latter want to make money li…

Sure, but aren't we forgetting that Russia is like China in that over a certain size of business you are in no way able to operate unless you are in agreement or cozy (more business) with the Kremlin? This is in stark contrast to the US where it's no problem for a company to operate HQ in Oklahoma and loudly oppose the current DC government. I mean, if we assume Milner wasn't backed and planted by the Kremlin for a moment, then one could consider it impossible for Milner to be untied to Kremlin if based primarily in Moscow, no?

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#44

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throwawaysml wrote: post #43
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Saudis, Chinese or Russian individuals invest, they do so openly. When Uber took Saudi state money, they knew why the Saudis were buying. I think this sort of state-backed investing is fine. The issue here is companies didn't treat Milner et al as an extension of the Russian state. They treated them as private individuals who made money in Russia. The difference is night and day. The latter want to make money li…

Sure, but aren't we forgetting that Russia is like China in that over a certain size of business you are in no way able to operate unless you are in agreement or cozy (more business) with the Kremlin? This is in stark contrast to the US where it's no problem for a company to operate HQ in Oklahoma and loudly oppose the current DC government. I mean, if we assume Milner wasn't backed and planted by the Kremlin for a m…

Tied to, and acting at the behest of, are night and day. One allows you to presume they're acting in their own financial interests, by and large, just like every other investor. The other merits caution.

Your larger point, that we should have been more cautious, stands. We should have figured this out. But dollars danced, and even the best of us started rationalizing [1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143894

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#45

Post by YuriNiyazov »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40
YuriNiyazov wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite far-fetched. You are suggesting that the internals (source code? general algorithms? product design documents?) of the Facebook advertising and news feed systems were sent to the Kremlin via someone who sits on the board requesting them. That's not how due diligence works.

> You are suggesting that the internals (source code? general algorithms? product design documents?) of the Facebook advertising and news feed systems were sent to the Kremlin via someone who sits on the board requesting them. That's not how due diligence works. Have you conducted early-stage due diligence? I have. We signed an NDA and got to review source, plans, blueprints; spoke with engineers; jockeyed with manag…

Yes, and now you are moving the goalposts:

https://techcrunch.com/2009/05/26/facebook-takes-that-200-mi...

Facebook was not a young company when it got the DST investment, and DST didn't get a board seat.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#46

Post by Asparagirl »

I'd be interested in hearing from Silicon Valley and YC companies' teams about how they feel knowing that they've been taking dirty money from the Kremlin, having representatives even sit on their boards.

Was it worth it? C'mon guys, don't hold back now. What's a few murdered dissidents between friends?

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#48

Post by JumpCrisscross »

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #45
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are suggesting that the internals (source code? general algorithms? product design documents?) of the Facebook advertising and news feed systems were sent to the Kremlin via someone who sits on the board requesting them. That's not how due diligence works. Have you conducted early-stage due diligence? I have. We signed an NDA and got to review source, plans, blueprints; spoke with engineers; jockeyed with manag…

Yes, and now you are moving the goalposts: https://techcrunch.com/2009/05/26/facebook-takes-that-200-mi... Facebook was not a young company when it got the DST investment, and DST didn't get a board seat.

> Facebook was not a young company when it got the DST investment, and DST didn't get a board seat

When did I claim this? Not every investment is troubling, though I expect Facebook's counsel will be reviewing what advice, requests, introductions, et cetera Milner and his team made over the years.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#49

Post by diogenescynic »

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #19

I don't really get the hysteria. I work for an American company in San Francisco that has Tencent (practically an arm of the Chinese government) as a major investor. The number of times our CEO came in and told me that we need to implement features that benefit our geopolitical competitor is exactly zero. What precisely do all the commenters that are panicking here think happens at companies where the investors are p…

The investment money came from dictators and their allies/cronies—money that they obtained illegally. Then they invest it here where they are able to legitimize/launder the money, reap the rewards of investing in companies they shouldn’t be allowed to (since they screw over foreign investors like Bill Browder), and then it puts Facebook and Twitter into a conflict of interest.

No wonder Facebook and Twitter didn’t stop Russia’s influence during the elections and offered RT ad space... It’s the same reason Fox News is always screaming about Islam and jihad but carefully tiptoes around Saudi’s Arabia because one of their biggest investors after the Murdoch’s is a Saudi Prince.

This is how democracy fails. It’s like hitting a boulder with a hammer. The first ten thousand times not much happens, but eventually it collapses all at once.

America has allowed itself to be manipulated through political divisions, politicization of facts and science, cultures wars, dividing us by race (encouraged by Trump’s actions), campaign finance reform failures, gerrymandering, voter suppression, and our Supreme Court selling us all out and allowing corporations (including foreign corporations) to spend unlimited amounts of money in our elections. We are destroying ourselves and allowing this to happen because big oil, the Christian Y’all Qaeda, and racists have formed an alliance on the right to refuse to acknowledge reality and have then the right into a cult ideology. I hope this is a cultural bottom, but it seems like things will just continue to get worse.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#50

Post by throwawaysml »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44
throwawaysml wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but aren't we forgetting that Russia is like China in that over a certain size of business you are in no way able to operate unless you are in agreement or cozy (more business) with the Kremlin? This is in stark contrast to the US where it's no problem for a company to operate HQ in Oklahoma and loudly oppose the current DC government. I mean, if we assume Milner wasn't backed and planted by the Kremlin for a m…

Tied to, and acting at the behest of, are night and day. One allows you to presume they're acting in their own financial interests, by and large, just like every other investor. The other merits caution. Your larger point, that we should have been more cautious, stands. We should have figured this out. But dollars danced, and even the best of us started rationalizing [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143…

True, and a fine line which is hard to judge from the seats we sit in. But I agree that a US company cannot be associated with the Kremlin or Beijing or Riad in 2017 without consequences. Maybe in 2023.

I just don't want to see a McCarthy witch hunt when a lot of the money floating in Wallstreet and the Valley is of dubious origin.

I would equally oppose taking money from one of the CIA VC firms, even that one where Dan Geer works. And I kinda have this idea that by now enough money is floating around valley from the money made in the valley that it should be possible to use that "pre-laundered" (if we may call it that) capital.

That said, I have no idea how a startup would vet the VC's capital backers, or what they should do when they find out some of it came from beijing, moscow, tel aviv, and you want to give it back to disassociate your startup.

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