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“Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

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Re: “Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the guy is homosexual. Maybe his boyfriend will get pissed off now that the other homosexual men in the audience may react to him differently. Who knows You even say that "a male being sexualized in a mostly male audience" is ok. HOW IS THAT OK? You literally can't make judgements about what is OK or not, because you can't empathize with each person in each scenario who "knows it better than you" and if someone…

Yeah, didn't say that was ok, I was trying to explain to you that maybe, just maybe, that scenario might make someone uncomfortable. You've decided her reason are invalid, that's not how it works. You're complaining about her "demonizing" people, but you decided to make an account to demonize her without a shred of empathy. What's your excuse for why this bothers you so much?

Thank you for trying to respond a bit more rationally.

I'll break this down further: Of course she could be uncomfortable. Lets agree she's actually reasonable in doing so.

However, you don't know what will make one person uncomfortable or not. Can you? You can guess, you can try your best, but ultimately you have no idea what someone will find offense. Can you? Is there an algorithm for it? No.

Ok so that means that sometimes people will be offended by things that weren't intended to offend. Now we're to the point where the offended person gets to React. How do they handle it? Do they think of all the angles?

What I disagree with is her reaction. You don't seem to disagree. This is what I am saying should be changed.

Aaron- maybe her talk would have helped hundreds of people. All those people lost out. Could she have asked the organizers in advance to change the image? It looked like they these went out privately for approval. Maybe I mis-read that?

Lets assume that they never asked for her approval and 5 minutes before she goes up, the slide goes up and BAM she is uncomfortable and feels sexualized. Again, its about her reaction.

Others in this thread commented they would roll with it, be resilient, etc. This is what we, as society, should reinforce in each other. And yes, we have to make judgments about where the line is. I don't agree with her judgement, I'll state that clearly.

Think about this: I think she only thought about herself and PROJECTED onto everyone else that they would stereotype her. What if I were in the audience and saw the image and also thought "oh wow that sucks for her, ok i'll be extra supportive of her and try my best to not sexualize her".

So, when you support her reaction, you are actually making a negative judgement about everyone else in the audience as well. I'm curious how you think about that?

Maybe i'm missing another perspective. Please let me know and i'm curious to introspect my own thoughts further.

I can't help but think if she just went along with it, everyone would respect her as a woman in tech to a much higher degree because she would have actually been a woman in tech doing real tech talks. Now shes a woman in tech not doing tech talks. It's kind of sad.

Re: “Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

#22
post #19
post #6

So Eastern European. I was at an Elastic conference in Poland where there were all sorts of ads which would be considered offensive here. Like one depicting a Native American chief in full head dress spouting some vague Indian-ish proverb with a tech slant.

I hope you meant it in a good way. There's very very few good things about Eastern Europe. But the "open minded humor" and ability to both take and receive jokes that would offend others is one of the good things. Humor has rarely been "malicious" and discriminative here, like in more developed European countries or the US. EE never actually had things like slavery or serious racial discrimination (the Rroma people a…

I'm non-white and live in Eastern Europe. I love the humor here. :-D

Re: “Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, didn't say that was ok, I was trying to explain to you that maybe, just maybe, that scenario might make someone uncomfortable. You've decided her reason are invalid, that's not how it works. You're complaining about her "demonizing" people, but you decided to make an account to demonize her without a shred of empathy. What's your excuse for why this bothers you so much?

Thank you for trying to respond a bit more rationally. I'll break this down further: Of course she could be uncomfortable. Lets agree she's actually reasonable in doing so. However, you don't know what will make one person uncomfortable or not. Can you? You can guess, you can try your best, but ultimately you have no idea what someone will find offense. Can you? Is there an algorithm for it? No. Ok so that means that…

The thing is, I agree with you about resilience, I agree with you about ignoring perceived slights, but I can't fault her personally for being offended in this way. I can't say she's really being unreasonable by being uncomfortable about that, she has a right to feel this way and even react in such a way without assuming that it's just about "drama" and emotional immaturity" (which you accused her of having).

If the organizers had handled it differently, it might be easier to see her as overreacting, but it's completely unprofessional to chide someone as acting like an adult in a professional setting like that, which probably only plays into whatever she's feeling with people not respecting her.

I felt you were condemning her position, which doesn't seem right. If my posts to you have been very one-sided and dismissive, that's because you were towards her claims.

Thank you for the more balanced posts and the discussion.

Re: “Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

#24

This should be buried, and I would never invite her to speak again because she is drama . This is a trend of hyper sensitivity that requires everyone to walk on eggshells and wear kid gloves because who knows what could trigger the emotional reaction. Really, think about this - what if a company tries to do something fun, like for halloween, and buys clip-on ties for the guys and clip-on hair ties for the girls, but…

I don't think that placing all of the blame on her, as it seems you are doing (and flagging most likely as well) helps with the conversation in the industry right now. Your entire comment blames her response rather than the stimulus.

You can say that you don't like her public response, but the response of the organizers and inability to send a quick note before doing what they did places some of this on them as well. I submitted this in the hopes that someone who organizes a conference in the future can have the insight to ask before doing something like this.

Re: “Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

#25

This should be buried, and I would never invite her to speak again because she is drama . This is a trend of hyper sensitivity that requires everyone to walk on eggshells and wear kid gloves because who knows what could trigger the emotional reaction. Really, think about this - what if a company tries to do something fun, like for halloween, and buys clip-on ties for the guys and clip-on hair ties for the girls, but…

You should grow up and learn to empathize with people different than you. It's not hard, you just have to imagine why someone with a different background than you might feel different about events than you do. She's much closer to this event, anyway, so I'm sure she's got a better opinion on it than you. And about her point of being sexualized - what if a guy had his face photoshopped onto he-man and that guy complai…

>you should grow up

Tactfully tactful

Re: “Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

#27
Did any other speakers object?

It looks like they did Sarah Drashner as Supergirl [1], and Daniel Woelfel, Sean Grove, and Jared Forsyth as members of some team that I do not recognize from the uniforms [2].

It looks like they also had lots of superhero stuff, such as models and sets that people could take photos with, and in general were going for a them that React developers are superheros right up their with groups like The Avengers. See various photos and tweets here [3].

[1] https://twitter.com/filipewl/status/923583201100083206

[2] https://twitter.com/ReactiveConf/status/888016901061922820

[3] https://twitter.com/reactiveconf/media

Re: “Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

#29

This should be buried, and I would never invite her to speak again because she is drama . This is a trend of hyper sensitivity that requires everyone to walk on eggshells and wear kid gloves because who knows what could trigger the emotional reaction. Really, think about this - what if a company tries to do something fun, like for halloween, and buys clip-on ties for the guys and clip-on hair ties for the girls, but…

> And about her point of being sexualized - what if a guy had his face photoshopped onto he-man and that guy complained about being sexualized because now his face is on a shirtless strong dude.

That would also be against the code of conduct and in poor taste. Don't measure with two measures - and neither should the organizers. Even not shirtless superheroes are overly sexualized, near-impossible male standards of asthetics, strength, and personality traits like superhero levels of patriotism and whatnot. Denying it's not problematic because it's men is applying a double standard.

Re: “Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

#30
post #5

only to see that the conference organizers had photoshopped my face onto a sexualized image of Wonder Woman without my consent, printed it out, and framed it. Isn’t it just an image of Wonder Woman, in full kit? Moreover, this iteration was recently hailed as a bit of a kickass lady, rather than a sex symbol. What makes this “sexualized” rather than a compliment about being like a Wonder Woman?

The problem is that all superheroes can be considered sex symbols, they're all examples of the greatest that people can achieve in terms of attitude, physical fitness, etc. One could argue the whole superhero thing is problematic.

(I'm not going to though, I enjoy the movies)

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