"Foreigners tend to view Nordic countries as "these socialist nanny states where everybody has a collectivist mindset," Partanen said. But "in fact a lot of these services really support everybody's independence."" I pay a ton of taxes in the U.S. I don't get how Finland warrants an accusation of a collectivist mindset, while America takes and redistributes just as much money. Is it because spending on defense, inste…
> America takes and redistributes just as much money
The statistics refute this claim.[1]
All values in USD/capita. Stats are from 2015
USA - 14,794
Finland - 18,580
Iceland - 18,783
Sweden - 21,800
Denmark - 24,527
Norway - 30,138
The other Scandinavian countries are included for comparison.
In Norway, you pay an annual tax on basically everything you own (update: yes, everything you own , not everything you earn that year ) past the first ~$180k. I don't really care what sort of "independence" this supports for somebody, I'm not going to live somewhere that makes you rent everything from the state, after paying exorbitant taxes to "buy" it. update: corrected the cutoff figure with new exchange rates and…
If what happens to your income past the first $100k is a major concern for you, you are very much in the minority in the US, as the median family income in the US is about $60k[1], and most Americans have less than $1k in savings.[2] Sure, rich people have little to gain by having a great social safety net, as they can just rely on their own money for all of that. But for the vast majority of Americans, it matters. A…
Not income, static assets. That is, if you own more than about 40 sqft (sic) of apartment space outside of a city centre, you must pay a wealth tax on it.
It's sad that this is the top response, because you have completely misunderstood what I said, and responded with something unrelated.
"Foreigners tend to view Nordic countries as "these socialist nanny states where everybody has a collectivist mindset," Partanen said. But "in fact a lot of these services really support everybody's independence."" I pay a ton of taxes in the U.S. I don't get how Finland warrants an accusation of a collectivist mindset, while America takes and redistributes just as much money. Is it because spending on defense, inste…
In Norway, you pay an annual tax on basically everything you own (update: yes, everything you own , not everything you earn that year ) past the first ~$180k. I don't really care what sort of "independence" this supports for somebody, I'm not going to live somewhere that makes you rent everything from the state, after paying exorbitant taxes to "buy" it. update: corrected the cutoff figure with new exchange rates and…
Taxes are not rent. Taxes are the share of expenses you pay for the services and security the state provides. In European countries, especially in the Scandinavian ones it’s commonly understood and agreed upon that the stronger ones carry more of that burden. That may sound like communism to people from a country with a stronger “each for his own good” mindset, but pretty much all statistics point in the direction that it makes for fewer extremely rich people but to an overall happier society. Not having to worry about health care is one of contributing factors. And when looking at the fact that a medical incident in the family nearly bankrupted the last Vice President of the US, you really have to be one of the few insanely rich to be certain that such an incident won’t hit you.
"Foreigners tend to view Nordic countries as "these socialist nanny states where everybody has a collectivist mindset," Partanen said. But "in fact a lot of these services really support everybody's independence."" I pay a ton of taxes in the U.S. I don't get how Finland warrants an accusation of a collectivist mindset, while America takes and redistributes just as much money. Is it because spending on defense, inste…
> America takes and redistributes just as much money The statistics refute this claim.[1] All values in USD/capita. Stats are from 2015 USA - 14,794 Finland - 18,580 Iceland - 18,783 Sweden - 21,800 Denmark - 24,527 Norway - 30,138 The other Scandinavian countries are included for comparison. [1] https://data.oecd.org/tax/tax-revenue.htm
It would be interesting to see income distribution as opposed to per capita. I think, it will throw up even more contrasts between USA and Nordics.
"Foreigners tend to view Nordic countries as "these socialist nanny states where everybody has a collectivist mindset," Partanen said. But "in fact a lot of these services really support everybody's independence."" I pay a ton of taxes in the U.S. I don't get how Finland warrants an accusation of a collectivist mindset, while America takes and redistributes just as much money. Is it because spending on defense, inste…
Effective tax rate in finland is around 50% https://tradingeconomics.com/finland/personal-income-tax-rat... and seems to come from a income tax rate that is similar to the US 25-31% but also includes retierment / social monies around 18+3%, so ends up effectively being 50-51. Also capitol gains is taxed at 30% for anything over 30k euros. I found this info with one google request, first 2 answers. So the tax rate is…
I think you are forgetting that in the US we also pay state and local income tax, state and local property tax, and State and local sales tax. Even if you rent you are paying property tax indirectly. There is also Social Security and Medicare taxes so pile on 12.6% for that as well.
Once you figure in all those things the effective US tax rate is a lot higher than the federal income tax rates.
"Foreigners tend to view Nordic countries as "these socialist nanny states where everybody has a collectivist mindset," Partanen said. But "in fact a lot of these services really support everybody's independence."" I pay a ton of taxes in the U.S. I don't get how Finland warrants an accusation of a collectivist mindset, while America takes and redistributes just as much money. Is it because spending on defense, inste…
In Norway, you pay an annual tax on basically everything you own (update: yes, everything you own , not everything you earn that year ) past the first ~$180k. I don't really care what sort of "independence" this supports for somebody, I'm not going to live somewhere that makes you rent everything from the state, after paying exorbitant taxes to "buy" it. update: corrected the cutoff figure with new exchange rates and…
Everything you own? Or everything you earn?
If the former, then this would an application of Piketty's idea, of taxing capital instead of revenue, which I thought had not been implemented anywhere yet.
"Foreigners tend to view Nordic countries as "these socialist nanny states where everybody has a collectivist mindset," Partanen said. But "in fact a lot of these services really support everybody's independence."" I pay a ton of taxes in the U.S. I don't get how Finland warrants an accusation of a collectivist mindset, while America takes and redistributes just as much money. Is it because spending on defense, inste…
"Foreigners tend to view Nordic countries as "these socialist nanny states where everybody has a collectivist mindset," Partanen said. But "in fact a lot of these services really support everybody's independence."" I pay a ton of taxes in the U.S. I don't get how Finland warrants an accusation of a collectivist mindset, while America takes and redistributes just as much money. Is it because spending on defense, inste…
That's a good angle.
We deify the military and then question whether the government can be trusted to build roads.
Effective tax rate in finland is around 50% https://tradingeconomics.com/finland/personal-income-tax-rat... and seems to come from a income tax rate that is similar to the US 25-31% but also includes retierment / social monies around 18+3%, so ends up effectively being 50-51. Also capitol gains is taxed at 30% for anything over 30k euros. I found this info with one google request, first 2 answers. So the tax rate is…
I think you are forgetting that in the US we also pay state and local income tax, state and local property tax, and State and local sales tax. Even if you rent you are paying property tax indirectly. There is also Social Security and Medicare taxes so pile on 12.6% for that as well. Once you figure in all those things the effective US tax rate is a lot higher than the federal income tax rates.
it's obviously higher but it's nowhere near an effective rate of 50% for a lot of US citizens
In Norway, you pay an annual tax on basically everything you own (update: yes, everything you own , not everything you earn that year ) past the first ~$180k. I don't really care what sort of "independence" this supports for somebody, I'm not going to live somewhere that makes you rent everything from the state, after paying exorbitant taxes to "buy" it. update: corrected the cutoff figure with new exchange rates and…
Taxes are not rent. Taxes are the share of expenses you pay for the services and security the state provides. In European countries, especially in the Scandinavian ones it’s commonly understood and agreed upon that the stronger ones carry more of that burden. That may sound like communism to people from a country with a stronger “each for his own good” mindset, but pretty much all statistics point in the direction th…
What the parent is talking about is most likely the yearly tax you have to pay over your (already taxed) savings. E.g. here in The Netherlands you have to pay 4% tax a year over any savings over 25k euro. This includes anything like investments as well.
The parent is considering that 4% the “rent” after you already paid 52% tax to “buy” it.