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Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

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Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#11

Post by aaron-lebo »

StevePerkins wrote: post #8
funkythingss wrote: post #4

These cowards don't link to the original: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I... Instead, they link to the heavily edited Gizmodo hit piece, that has the sources removed. Dishonest

Looking at the poster's history, I imagine this was "laziness" rather than "cowardice". For an example of cowardice, take note when this thread is almost certainly flagged and buried within the next hour or two.

That's such an unfair way to paint your opposition.

This is how Damore does "evidence" and proves sources:

De-emphasize empathy - I’ve heard several calls for increased empathy on diversity issues. While I strongly support trying to understand how and why people think the way they do, relying on affective empathy—feeling another’s pain—causes us to focus on anecdotes, favor individuals similar to us, and harbor other irrational and dangerous biases[0]. Being emotionally unengaged helps us better reason about the facts.

Right because Damore is so objective and the people he is trying to engage are emotional cripples. Here's his "source" for that:

https://bostonreview.net/forum/paul-bloom-against-empathy

This is not what objective research looks like.

Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#12

Post by funkythingss »

quuquuquu wrote: post #6
funkythingss wrote: post #4

These cowards don't link to the original: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I... Instead, they link to the heavily edited Gizmodo hit piece, that has the sources removed. Dishonest

Thank you for this. I agree that they are cowards. Damore is completely right, certain members of our society are shaming others into silence for supposed psychological safety. I also feel that money and political power are on the line too, which just heightens the needs for shaming others into silence, in their minds. Let's see what happens to our posts. EDIT: also Damore was attacked non-stop during his interview w…

I'm honestly not in the position to judge whether his sources were correct or not. If you read the memo and listen to him (e.g. on the Rubin Report) however you realise he doesn't want to hurt anybody, not even close. He is an extremely intelligent, introverted guy.

But I don't care about it being right or wrong. Google wanted all opinions to be on the table (in theory). Damore is just the latest example of someone (usually a little right wing) to get in trouble for his political opinions. I don't want this shit to come to Europe, I want to be able to have political discussions with my colleagues.

Speaking up for anyone who is unjustly attacked, no matter what political affiliation, is all we can do. I firmly believe Silicon Valley will eat itself. Silicon Valley is so big, because it cared about results, not diversity. Shifting their attention to diversity will increasingly bug investors and/or hurt profits so bad, that the next big tech hub will arise.

Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#13

Post by aaron-lebo »

randallsquared wrote: post #9
aaron-lebo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He made sizable list of claims, criticism of any of them is not evidence of what he was saying. My belief that you are wrong about Damore doesn't make you right. This should go without saying, but you made a new account to say that.

> This should go without saying, but you made a new account to say that. ...due to fear of the consequences of publicly holding a non-mainstream opinion in a culture-war subject, I assume. While I agree that merely being contrarian doesn't make the GP right, I also believe that calling them out for trying to protect themselves isn't very helpful.

They've got nothing to protect themselves from. It's not hypocritical for that same poster to accuse others of cowardice and then hide in anonymity?

Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#14

Post by [deleted] »

randallsquared wrote: post #9
aaron-lebo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He made sizable list of claims, criticism of any of them is not evidence of what he was saying. My belief that you are wrong about Damore doesn't make you right. This should go without saying, but you made a new account to say that.

> This should go without saying, but you made a new account to say that. ...due to fear of the consequences of publicly holding a non-mainstream opinion in a culture-war subject, I assume. While I agree that merely being contrarian doesn't make the GP right, I also believe that calling them out for trying to protect themselves isn't very helpful.

[deleted]

Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#15

Post by falcolas »

StevePerkins wrote: post #8
funkythingss wrote: post #4

These cowards don't link to the original: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I... Instead, they link to the heavily edited Gizmodo hit piece, that has the sources removed. Dishonest

Looking at the poster's history, I imagine this was "laziness" rather than "cowardice". For an example of cowardice, take note when this thread is almost certainly flagged and buried within the next hour or two.

Meta: Already off the front page, with 7 minutes on your post.

Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#16

Post by moomin »

I work in the UK. It’s much, much harder to get rid of someone without losing a case than it is in California. You know what? If someone’s disruptive, aggravates his co-workers or embarrasses the firm in public, they’re gone. They can get taken to industrial tribunal, they lose and just chalk it up to the cost of doing business.

Google took a few days to think about it before firing Damore. I’m sure they worked out the cost/benefit.

Yeah, they’ll fight this (and the line of argument sounds like a reach) but even if they lose, it’s just the cost of doing business. They might tighten up their process for firing people to avoid the particular vulnerability, but they won’t stop doing it.

Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#17

Post by StevePerkins »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #11
StevePerkins wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the poster's history, I imagine this was "laziness" rather than "cowardice". For an example of cowardice, take note when this thread is almost certainly flagged and buried within the next hour or two.

That's such an unfair way to paint your opposition. This is how Damore does "evidence" and proves sources: De-emphasize empathy - I’ve heard several calls for increased empathy on diversity issues. While I strongly support trying to understand how and why people think the way they do, relying on affective empathy—feeling another’s pain—causes us to focus on anecdotes, favor individuals similar to us, and harbor other…

I'm not sure if you're addressing me, OP, Damore, or just yelling into the aether. I certainly haven't said anything TO address regarding the content of Damore's original paper.

For the record, I found Damore's reasoning to be terribly flawed. However, I happen to also believe that squashing all public discussion in its wake is foolish, cowardly, and entirely counterproductive from a practical standpoint.

If you're afraid to pull bad reasoning out in the open and cleanse it with the sunshine of better reasoning, then it just festers and grows in the shadows.

Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#18

Post by funkythingss »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #11
StevePerkins wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the poster's history, I imagine this was "laziness" rather than "cowardice". For an example of cowardice, take note when this thread is almost certainly flagged and buried within the next hour or two.

That's such an unfair way to paint your opposition. This is how Damore does "evidence" and proves sources: De-emphasize empathy - I’ve heard several calls for increased empathy on diversity issues. While I strongly support trying to understand how and why people think the way they do, relying on affective empathy—feeling another’s pain—causes us to focus on anecdotes, favor individuals similar to us, and harbor other…

I don't care if he was right or wrong, or objective. And I don't claim to have sufficient knowledge about the topic to disprove/approve his points. I care about the right to discuss things without the fear of being smeared. Discussions are essential for us to iron out or positions, learn something new or change our mind. If you simply ignore one side of the issue, people will retract into their bubble, which is the exact opposite of what we need right now.

If he's wrong, you have every right to discuss this issue with him. That's actually what he wanted, if you look towards the end of his memo. Did you read the original? https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...

Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#19

Post by aaron-lebo »

StevePerkins wrote: post #17
aaron-lebo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such an unfair way to paint your opposition. This is how Damore does "evidence" and proves sources: De-emphasize empathy - I’ve heard several calls for increased empathy on diversity issues. While I strongly support trying to understand how and why people think the way they do, relying on affective empathy—feeling another’s pain—causes us to focus on anecdotes, favor individuals similar to us, and harbor other…

I'm not sure if you're addressing me, OP, Damore, or just yelling into the aether. I certainly haven't said anything TO address regarding the content of Damore's original paper. For the record, I found Damore's reasoning to be terribly flawed. However, I happen to also believe that squashing all public discussion in its wake is foolish, cowardly, and entirely counterproductive from a practical standpoint. If you're a…

My point is that downvoting and flagging a dead horse based off of a months old discussion isn't evidence of cowardice. Maybe there's just not much useful there?

Re: Google’s fired engineer: James Damore’s claim against search giant revealed

#20

Post by [deleted] »

funkythingss wrote: post #18
aaron-lebo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such an unfair way to paint your opposition. This is how Damore does "evidence" and proves sources: De-emphasize empathy - I’ve heard several calls for increased empathy on diversity issues. While I strongly support trying to understand how and why people think the way they do, relying on affective empathy—feeling another’s pain—causes us to focus on anecdotes, favor individuals similar to us, and harbor other…

I don't care if he was right or wrong, or objective. And I don't claim to have sufficient knowledge about the topic to disprove/approve his points. I care about the right to discuss things without the fear of being smeared. Discussions are essential for us to iron out or positions, learn something new or change our mind. If you simply ignore one side of the issue, people will retract into their bubble, which is the e…

[deleted]
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