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The Great College Loan Swindle

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101–110 of 118 posts

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#101
post #48

For kids preparing for college lucky enough to read these comments, and parents with kids preparing to go to college, consider this advice: 1. Always go in-state public funded college and university, it's much, much cheaper. In-state meaning the state the student is currently a resident. 2. If you must go out of state, make sure the student registers as a state resident after their first year (most states require a y…

UC still counts you as "out-of-state" even if you stay a year and become a California resident. http://ucop.edu/residency/index.html

You can combine it with point 3: attend community college the first 2 years then transfer. I know at least some CA community colleges let you become an instate student after your first year and even out-of-state tuition at a community college isn't that expensive. In the Bay Area you're likely to pay more in rent than tuition at a community college.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#102
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no workable definition of "sensible" here. A number of my friends graduated with journalism degrees in 2007. They couldn't find jobs in journalism. This probably seems obvious to you now, that journalism is not a "sensible" degree, but in 2002-2004 when we were choosing schools and degrees, every major city had two or more competing newspapers with healthy entry level hiring. The world changed. That happens.…

This change in the economy is why college should be about education and not vocation.

Agreed 100%. I think the focus on delineating useful vs. useless degrees in this thread represents exactly the wrong approach to solving this problem.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we reduce college attendance drastically, it may be necessary to maintain high end (cutting edge) universities. Otherwise only those with promise and wealth could go.

Sure. But why federally funded?

Because colleges in this hypothetical would serve the common good and the population as a whole would benefit from it's existence. How are you proposing colleges be funded?

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#104
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This change in the economy is why college should be about education and not vocation.

Agreed 100%. I think the focus on delineating useful vs. useless degrees in this thread represents exactly the wrong approach to solving this problem.

On the one hand, I agree completely.

On the other hand, I don't think you can ignore the financials. It's not about "useful vs useless." All courses of study are useful. People are getting saddled with piles of debt that they can't manage, though, and US law doesn't allow you to declare bankruptcy from your student loans, so people can potentially end up screwed for life. Against that kind of a backdrop, to blithely charge students whatever tuition they're willing to pay, regardless of whether or not they can expect to be able to pay it, is heartless.

So then the question arises, how do you increase the chances that nobody gets shackled with unmanageable debt for life? Changing the earning power conferred by different majors is a possibility. But, capitalism being what it is, that's going to require either changing the demand for those skills, or changing the supply of people who have those skills. It's hard to imagine how the former can be managed without some sort of government subsidy.

There are myriad ways you could affect the supply side, though. Doing something to put universities on the hook for how much their students earn, such as having students pay a % of their income to their alma mater for a decade or two in lieu of all or part of their tuition, would certainly do it. Universities would hopefully respond by starting to limit the number of seats available in departments that feed into less lucrative career paths right quick, in order to make sure that every department is financially sustainable. That would, in turn, reduce the supply of people with those skills, which would translate into an upward trajectory in how much it costs to hire someone with those skills.

But what is that kind of approach, if not a distinctly capitalist riff on the idea of "delineating useful vs. useless degrees"?

And if not something like that, then what?

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#105
> Tuition for a halfway decent school now frequently surpasses $50,000 a year.

Where is the source for this statistic? The only universities which I know to charge that high are small private liberal arts colleges or the Ivies.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#106
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t go to college and I’m making 6 figures as a software developer. I’d say half the people I work with never went to college either.

What is your point here? Bill Gates was a college drop out and he's wealthy, but so are some lottery winners.

Bill Gates is a terrible example for college dropouts considering the college he dropped out from.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#107
post #8

Why would it be in a university's interests to accumulate such a large amount of cash?

Because they are basically becoming hedge funds with an university attached. 'I was going to donate money to Yale. But maybe it makes more sense to mail a check directly to the hedge fund of my choice' - Malcolm Gladwell tweet https://www.thenation.com/article/universities-are-becoming-...

I think this statement only holds for private universities -- public ones are struggling financially.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/10/midwest...

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#108
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are basically becoming hedge funds with an university attached. 'I was going to donate money to Yale. But maybe it makes more sense to mail a check directly to the hedge fund of my choice' - Malcolm Gladwell tweet https://www.thenation.com/article/universities-are-becoming-...

I think this statement only holds for private universities -- public ones are struggling financially. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/10/midwest...

UVA - $5 Billion

http://endowments.com/university-of-virginia/

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And another way of looking at things is this problem would not exist if the government did not pass special rules that affect student loans, and only student loans. I think there are lots of sources of failure that lead up to the problem, but the vast majority are of good intentions. It's not hard to see why the government decided to create special rules. It enabled lenders to all but completely ensure profit on loan…

> Who cares who's fault it is? There's a problem that needs fixing is all that matters. I care. We can't properly address the problem or learn from our mistakes if we don't know the cause. We had colleges before federal student loan subsidies. Our parents went to school and paid for tuition with part time jobs. Then we had them, and decades later, the chickens have come home to roost. This is not rocket science--it's…

Determining a cause and attributing responsibility are not the same. One can argue that just about everybody is responsible:

- Government giving special laws that are able to be abused.

- Lenders utilizing said laws to maximize their personal benefit

- Universities raising costs far outside of any notion of need

- Students taking out loans they can't repay

- Parents/schools encouraging students to go to college, even for low value degrees

- Employers requiring degrees for jobs that don't really require them.

And while each of these can be attacked, they can be just as easily defended. When you try to attribute blame, it's going to end up being horribly subjective and more like to turn into a witch hunt than anything else. And it's also going to be incredibly partisan. For instance people who chose to not attend university would completely understandably prefer to blame students. Students who went to university would probably prefer to blame universities or lenders. Who's right? There's no objective answer.

What is clear is the cause of the problem -- students are taking out loans that will not be able to be reasonably paid back. And so too are there plenty of solutions. Blame plays no part other than to divide people.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But why federally funded?

Because colleges in this hypothetical would serve the common good and the population as a whole would benefit from it's existence. How are you proposing colleges be funded?

They're currently funded many different ways: federal grants, federally subsidized loans, government (both state and federal) subsidized savings accounts, state funds, various scholarship charities, loan forgiveness programs, endowments, etc. Seems like centralizing all that money and decision-making ability into the hands of the President and the U.S. Congress would be a net loss.
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